Xmas trees and other "religious" decorations

jacie · #1 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 03:07 PM

Do you think Christmas trees, signs saying "Merry Christmas" and other such decorations should be banned from government buildings in favor of "non-religious" holiday decor? What about in shopping centers? Schools? Workplaces?

moonrise · #2 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 03:42 PM

I dont think it should be banned. Im not Christian, but it doesnt bother me, and of course the fact that the tree is actually a pagan decoration for Yule, Saturnalia, or Winter Solstice, makes it actually pretty enjoyable to see. I live in a city where Happy Diwali!!! at the end of october/november is posted all over all the shops with banners on the light posts etc.... I think its great that people want to celebrate things. As long as people dont force their beliefs on me, Im a-ok with that.

roxrkool · #3 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 05:09 PM

I think governments and other public institutions should refrain from promoting religion. They should be completely secular. Private institutions (stores, etc.) can do what they please.

richdi40 · #4 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 08:45 PM

I dont think they should be banned and I am not religious either

momof4boys · #5 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 11:47 PM

As a Christian, I don't think any symbols, religious or not, should be banned. In the town I live in we actually have a nativity scene on the lawn of our courthouse.

I also don't have a problem with stores(or anyone for that matter)saying Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas. It doesn't take away the true meaning of Christmas, so say what you want to say.

We celebrate Christmas as the day of Jesus' birth(even though He wasn't even born in December)but we also allow our kids to believe in Santa. We have a Christmas tree and a nativity scene. There is nothing wrong with having both Christian symbols and secular symbols for Christmas because it doesn't take away the meaning of WHY we are celebrating.

Emaline · #6 (**permalink**) 12-10-2006, 05:43 AM

I believe they have no place in government places. Stores and privately owned places can do as they wish. I wish places would stick with Happy Holidays versus Merry Christmas as I believe it is better to be inclusive versus exclusive but if it is their own business they can do as they wish.

moonrise · #7 (**permalink**) 12-10-2006, 01:22 PM

Well, I guess keeping it out of political establishments would make sense. But seeing as how GW Bush says "God bless America" , he is kind of making a religious statement with that regardless.
At our local elementary school, they discuss many different religions that celebrate this time of year in their own ways. Mainly due to the huge number of South East Asians in our community (sikh mainly)But the artwork brought home is mainly representive of the season, just like the art they bring home in any other season is mainly about the season itself and not so much about the Christian holiday associated with it.

momof4boys · #8 (**permalink**) 12-10-2006, 02:01 PM

But seeing as how GW Bush says "God bless America" , he is kind of making a religious statement with that regardless.

Many presidents have made references to God or said God Bless America" so what? If you don't believe in God tell me, does having a religious symbol at Christmas or any other time of year make you believe in Him? If it doesn't change how you celebrate Christmas, why does it matter what or where any type of symbol is located? Non-religious symbols don't change the meaning of Christmas to me, so why should we ban religious symbols? Personally, I think religious and secular symbols should be allowed anywhere and we all just celebrate Christmas the way we want to. Of course that wouldn't cause controversy and that's what we Americans like.

Emaline · #9 (**permalink**) 12-10-2006, 06:32 PM

But seeing as how GW Bush says "God bless America" , he is kind of making a religious statement with that regardless.

Yeah but you don't want to get me started on how big of an idiot I think he is....

As for Presidents, I think Presidents owe it to the people of the US to be inclusive rather then exclusive. They can celebrate the holiday as they wish on their own time but when addressing the nation as the President, they should most definitely be inclusive.

At our local elementary school, they discuss many different religions that celebrate this time of year in their own ways. Mainly due to the huge number of South East Asians in our community (sikh mainly)But the artwork brought home is mainly representive of the season, just like the art they bring home in any other season is mainly about the season itself and not so much about the Christian holiday associated with it.

I know many schools are sticking with snowflakes and other ambiguous things and I don't have an issue with that. If they are going to trees and stars, I would hope they are also doing things that are representative of other religious holidays that fall around that time, if they are not, then they should do none. I realize you said your school does, and that is great, many do not

I think unless a child is attending a Christian school, then schools should really not be dictating art work or projects that are based on one religion. It does show a preference and again, it is about exclusion versus inclusion. I do not believe that should be what a school is about.

adamsmommy · #10 (**permalink**) 12-10-2006, 07:17 PM

I remember making Christmas trees and hanging them in the hallway in grade school. Nobody had a second thought about it. I even remember a few Jewish symbols hanging for the holidays also. People get to defensive over every little thing nowadays.

Emaline · #11 (**permalink**) 12-10-2006, 07:30 PM

This time of year there is more then one holiday and I do not see what is so wrong in making sure that everyone is being included. That is part of what the season is about to me. I want to celebrate with everyone, not just the people of my beliefs. We can still do what we want in our homes and celebrate how we wish with our own families, I don't feel that I'm losing anything by being inclusive in the public.

momof4boys · #12 (**permalink**) 12-10-2006, 08:51 PM

then schools should really not be dictating art work or projects that are based on one religion

Christmas trees are NOT religious, they are actually Pagan, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with schools doing those as projects. Stars? Now I can see non-Christians having a problem with Angels, but stars? Oh but I see, you don't want them doing Christmas trees, so I guess they wouldn't need anything to put on top of it.

Seriously, how exactly does someone hanging a Christmas tree decoration, a star or even a nativity scene change the meaning of Christmas for YOU? As I have already said, non-religious symbols do not change the meaning for me, so even as a Christian, it doesn't bother me that people may choose to say Happy Holidays. Funny, it seems the one who usually gets called close minded is actually more open minded than others who usually claim to be open minded. Hmmmmm...

Emaline · #13 (**permalink**) 12-11-2006, 06:41 AM

Being inclusive to include people of all religions and none is being closed minded? You really need to explain that to me because I'm laughing my @ss off at you at the moment.

I agree with you on Christmas trees histories being pagan in roots but they have come to traditionally represent Christmas, which is a Christian holiday. Stars, seriously you don't see them as being religious? Especially around Christmas? Also you seem to have forgotten that I said as long as they are including things from other cultures and holidays at that time, I don't care! If they are not doing those things, then they should do none. Again being inclusive.

Having those things don't bother me at all because I celebrate Christmas, I'm thinking of children who do not. I guess we should just say screw them because their parents are good Christians? It wouldn't bother me in the least if they took these things out of the schools because we will still do what we want in our own homes. To me it is more important what I do here then anything they get from outside of here.

Again explain to me how being inclusive of all is such a bad thing and takes away from how you celebrate your holiday at home and what you teach and feel about the season? I'm really interested in hearing how it is such an awful thing to include everyone in the holiday season.

momof4boys · #14 (**permalink**) 12-11-2006, 02:18 PM

You really need to explain that to me because I'm laughing my @ss off at you at the moment.

Don't care. You need to explain it to me. Art projects at school are mostly secular, and that actually excludes some Christian children who don't do Santa or stockings. What about Jehova's Witness' children? They don't celebrate ANY holiday, so how do we include them? They can't do religious or secular projects. I even knew a little boy in school who couldn't even do a snowman because his parents said that was a Christmas thing. If you do no projects at all, you are being exclusive and not inclusive. My point is, you can't make everyone happy all of the time and you can't always be 100% inclusive. Should we try to be? Sure, but someone is still going to be upset.

I said earlier that I think ALL things, religious and secular should be allowed EVERYWHERE, including government buildings. If you don't think so, then maybe these government workers should have to work on holidays.

Again explain to me how being inclusive of all is such a bad thing and takes away from how you celebrate your holiday at home and what you teach and feel about the season? I'm really interested in hearing how it is such an awful thing to include everyone in the holiday season.

Well, since I never said this, I can assume you aren't talking to me.

Emaline · #15 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 06:38 AM

Explain what to you? I don't understand.

I don't understand how Snowmen are Christmasy or snowflakes. That is a new one. They are certainly wintery but not Christmas. All a school can do is be as secular as possible, sure someone may be pissed off still but you can only do your best.

I said earlier that I think ALL things, religious and secular should be allowed EVERYWHERE, including government buildings. If you don't think so, then maybe these government workers should have to work on holidays.

I disagree. I think it is very important the government remain secular. As for working holidays, I've got no problem with that whatsoever. I have to work on holidays, so it wouldn't bother me one bit if all places had to be open on the holidays. People can take their vacation those days if they want to and it will all come down to seniority.

staceymp · #16 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 08:16 AM

i am a christian and believe so i love all the christmas trees and decorations i see in public places....however i do beleive that they should include other religious celebrations of christmas also....prime example would be the airport that is forced to take down the christmas tree.....leave it and put up the mennorah (don't know how to spell it) and whatever other religions too.
otherwise i guess just dont look at it and ruin the season for everyone else!

adamsmommy · #17 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 10:48 AM

If the buliding has people that want to put up other things, then they can. Whatever holiday, religion or whatever. Its not right that people get offended by others beliefs. Just because people like to celebrate Christmas everywhere and 'other' religions holidays aren't as popular or wide spread, that not the peoples fault who LOVE the sight of Chrstmas Trees, stars, Nativity scenes or anything else.

adamsmommy · #18 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 10:50 AM

I agree, if you don't like it, don't look at it. The guy across the street has the most piece of crap truck I have ever seen and he absolutely loves that thing. No one else's business. We just don't look at it.

staceymp · #19 (**permalink**) 12-12-2006, 08:11 PM

adamsmommy....you have a really good point!! i agree totally!