Where's the outrage, like with Tookie?

kwright · #1 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 06:14 AM

Calif. Gov. to Parole Killer Turned Priest
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Mar 10, 5:33 AM (ET)

SACRAMENTO (AP) - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has decided to parole a convicted murderer who became an Episcopal priest while behind bars, according to a spokeswoman.

The state parole board voted last October to release James Tramel, 38, who was convicted in 1986 of killing a homeless man in Santa Barbara. Schwarzenegger, who rejected parole for Tramel a year ago, declined this time around to review his case, said Julie Soderlund, an aide to the governor. If the case is not reviewed by the governor, the parole board's decision stands.

Tramel is scheduled to be released Sunday, said the Rev. Richard Helmer, a San Francisco clergyman who coordinated a campaign for Tramel's parole.

"I feel humbled," Tramel said from Solano State Prison in Vacaville. "I feel the weight of my responsibility to justify the faith that people have put in me."

Schwarzenegger's office did not say why the governor changed his mind.

Tramel was convicted of killing Michael Stephenson, 29, in an unprovoked crime that the victim's family called a "thrill killing." Tramel, who was a 17-year-old Santa Barbara prep school student at the time, was sentenced to 15 years to life for second-degree murder, as was another defendant, David Kurtzman, who stabbed Stephenson 17 times and remains incarcerated.

The victim's father criticized the decision to release Tramel.

"We certainly don't want him out but there's not a thing we can do," said Edward Stephenson of Newport Beach.

Tramel began counseling dying inmates in prison and in 1998 became the first prisoner to be accepted as a student at the Church Divinity School of the Pacific in Berkeley, where he earned a master's degree in theological studies through an off-campus program.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060310/D8G8LBTGK.html

personaly I could give a rat's *** that he is now a priest, or that he got a master's degree. seems to me he is held to a different standard.

typical double standard. Gross.

jillindelray · #2 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 06:40 AM

hmmmm....white prep school student vs. black gang member. and who says racism isn't alive and well in america!?!

Soon2Bmomof2inMN · #3 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 06:42 AM

I think I am with you on this one. I don't think his sentense should be cut short just because he is in the ministry. He committed a disgusting crime and he should serve out his sentense. Let him keep preaching to the inmates and be a priest in jail. I am *not* for letting cold blooded killers out of jail...ever.

geela · #4 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 06:48 AM

Personally I think all murder convictions should be life w/out parole, and when I say life, I mean the person's whole life, not just 40 or 50 years.

That said, I don't think there is a double standard in these cases. For one thing they each got two different sentances in the first place. Tookie was never up for parole and the most the govenor could've done was commune his sentance to life. Second, Tramel killed one person, in what I am assuming was an isolated crime, meaning he was not involved in other criminal activity. Tookie OTOH killed 4 people, one of whom was a police officer. He was also involved in on-going criminal activity through his gang activities. When the govenator pardons, communes or paroles a killer with the same rap sheet as Tookie I will be outraged.

jillindelray · #5 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 08:16 AM

^ c'mon now geela...you are making it sound like a police officers life is more important than a homeless mans.

wandb · #6 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 08:57 AM

Geela, I agree. I sounds like the fact that this guy killed one guy versus the 4 that Tookie killed is a factor here. In addition, Tookie's involvement with the founding of a gang I'm sure played into his sentence.

I don't think you can automatically cry racism just because one was black and one was white. The crimes are different.

wandb · #7 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 09:05 AM

Also, I wanted to point out that Clarence Ray Allen was also executed this year. Where was the outrage for him? Was it because he wasn't black that he didn't get the outcry that Tookie did? Ot was it because he didn't write children's books. I don't see the racism that you are referring to here.

Annette027 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by kwright

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060310/D8G8LBTGK.html

personaly I could give a rat's *** that he is now a priest, or that he got a master's degree. seems to me he is held to a different standard.

typical double standard. Gross.

I thought you'd be jumping for joy...yeah another reformed murderer release from prison.

Tookie was a cold blooded murderer and I don't care if he got half of hollywood on his side...he deserved to get the death penalty.

BTW, Gov. Schwarzenegger did not release him, the parole board did. This guy wasn't a convict on death row...he was serving a life sentence. That is probably the biggest differences between these two case. Either was they should have just let this guy rot in prison, IMO.

geela · #9 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by jillindelray

^ c'mon now geela...you are making it sound like a police officers life is more important than a homeless mans.

I'm not saying that at all, but typically the courts impose stricter sentances on those who either kill or assult police officers than those who kill or assult civilians, whether they are homeless or CEO's. Although, typcally killing or assulting children is usually seen on a similar level as killing or assulting a police officer.

ETHAN'S MOMMA · #10 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 10:21 AM

Actually I think the punishment is stiffer if you kill a cop . I'll go look it up and post the info.

geela · #11 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by ETHAN'S MOMMA

Actually I think the punishment is stiffer if you kill a cop . I'll go look it up and post the info.

EM I just said it was similar, not the exact same.

fanof24 · #12 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 10:35 AM

Geela, I agree. I don't think there is a double standard in this instance. You really can't compare what Tookie did with what this guy did b/c they had two completely different sentences from their crimes. Now, had he been on death row and was now about to be paroled, that would be entirely different.

I don't think that they should have paroled him though.

midwifemommyofmany · #13 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 07:40 PM

I think this case is much different that the one with Tookie. First of all bc this guy wasn't on death row, Tookie was. Second of all he did at least serve his 15 years...which now means he is up for parole. So the parole board voted that he should be granted parole. This time Gov. S. just isn't rejecting it. So i dont really see it as a black/white racial issue of fairness.

Also, this man killed one person. And while I believe that is absolutely horrific, I don't know the ins and outs of this case...for one thing, he was 17 when he committed the crime. Also its not like he started a freakin gang that has killed thousands of people (unlike Tookie and the Crips).

I feel really bad for the family of the person killed...they are extremely upset (and rightfully so) that this man is getting out of prison.

DuchsLove · #14 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 11:58 PM

Certainly not the same as Tookie. Tookie was directly involved in 4 murders, and indirectly involved in many others.

This man was sentenced to 15 years to life and if I'm reading right, he served over 15 years. Totally different sentence and circumstances than Tookie. I'm not seeing the racism or problem here.