hazooooose christos, you are such a whiner jacie. do shut up now.

Anyone still want to talk about the issue? Or do you just want to bash me and my hubby?

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I agree with you, Emaline. If a man is proven to be a child molester, abusive, or if the child is in any kind of danger a father should not have visitation. However, why does the subject of abuse always come up when discussing father's rights? The reality is that father's rights affect all relationships while abuse affects a very small subset of relationships.

Raising the issue of abuse in relation to father's rights is about as polite as raising the issue of the crimes committed by young black males during a discussion of affirmative action hiring.

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Did you hear that? I might be intelligent! Considering what I read on another board, this just makes my heart go pitty pat. Sorry Jacie, that was off topic and really has nothing to do with you. Just found it to be pretty funny.

I think the problem is that "abuse" can be subjective. I'm sure some children would find it to be abusive if their father deserted them and their mother for years (not a slam on your husband Jacie just thinking of what a girl I knew in high school went through). Her father decided to come back after years of never paying child support and not seeing his kids. He had a new wife and family and decided it was time to make nice with his old one. They wanted absolutely nothing to do with the guy. They thought he was the biggest @sshole. The courts did not agree and they had to spend time with him, at least until they were 18.

So it doesn't just have to be physical abuse or rape or molestation or beatings. Sometimes there are other things that might happen and the kids want nothing to do with the father. I don't know what you do in a case like the above with the girl in my high school. To me, the father forfeited his rights when he left them and had nothing to do with them for years. I don't see why he should be able to come back and turn their lives upside down because he felt it was time. Kids shouldn't have to be subjected to the whims of their parents this way. That isn't right or fair.

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Snowy days!



Jennifer (37) & Chris (41)
Alex 3.5
Teagan 1

Classic Projection.
I'm an equal opportunity basher. As far as bashing the love (PUKE) of your life, if he wasn't married to a mindless idiot I wouldn't have anything to bash him for would I.
I would also like to call for a show of hands as to how many people believe Jacie has been posting a logical, coherent, well thought out arguement, that is not based on emotion? Show of hands? Not trying to be mean here, but I haven't seen it yet.

I'm trying to debate, but you keep throwing up these smokescreens of what you think divorce and custody should be, and not what it is. Nor do you have any respect for the reason custody IS the way it is.
Can women make it difficult, sure, but men have the ability to go above the pettiness, and instead most choose to feed into it(if they didn't start it in the first place). There is rarely a completely innocent party with the exception of the child.

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Dear Jacquie,
You were right about everything.
-Jacie

Now don't you worry! I've got plenty of time for both!

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Dear Jacquie,
You were right about everything.
-Jacie

Psychological abuse and neglect are just as dangerous. Not in an immediate type of way, but when say, for example, a child is abandoned by a parent the repurcussions aren't evidenced by marks on a body, but rather the psyche of the mind. Whether it surfaced after the initial abandonment or later-even as an adult, doesn't make it less scarring.

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Dear Jacquie,
You were right about everything.
-Jacie

Woohooo! Validation! LMAO!

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Dear Jacquie,
You were right about everything.
-Jacie

Like I said, not interested in defending myself and my gorgeous man anymore. There are 300 posts already dedicated to that. So I guess I will have to move on to another board since this is boring as hell. Talking about issues is interesting. This is just mindless. I had a valid debate going that immediately turned into a mud-slinging fest. How redundant.

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Or, you could simply start another debate on a (decent) subject that has nothing to do with your DH? It's really not that hard.....

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Dear Jacquie,
You were right about everything.
-Jacie

Jacie, redundant is 4 threads on the same issue. That's boring as hell.

Hmm.. interesting debate.... I am just going to jump in here.
I know there can be alot of biased attitude towards men in the family court system. Now.. this could be because there are some pretty rotten men out there that have ruined it for the good ones. As ive shared before, in a past relationship I had with a man, we dealt with courts for a few years trying to get custody of his son. His ex was young, a drug addict and physically and verbally abusing their child. It was a nightmare... in the end, he did not get custody, but after losing her son to foster homes a few times, she got her sh*t together.
I have been on the other end as well. The father of my firstborn really has barely anything to do with our son. He was a drunk. He wasnt interested in paying support and therefore made himself scarce. FAmily Maintenance Enforcement Program tracked him down for child support... he decided he wanted to visit him. He saw him about twice a year although we lived in the same city. Now he sees him maybe once a year. Our son is almost 18. He claimed poverty to evade child support, about 3 years ago,using the fact that he was re-married and had 4 children under 3 to support and was currently not working because he was on paternity leave. He pays 185/month and we are going through the courts right now. He doesnt call to say hi to our son unless he's drunk, and our son doesnt call him . It saddens me. (i was 16 and VERY unintelligent when i married that man)
Second dad... got pregnant twice while on the pill.... got my tubes tied. I raised the three kids on my own. The second dad over the years has become more mentally unstable, isnt reliable with visits and has been threatening suicide since HIS maintenance order was upped. (makes 50,000/year but was only paying 300 combined for two kids) In BOTh situations i tried to make it work.. for the kids sake.. but to no avail. And these two men, as well as others like them tend to give fathers a bad name.
I also hold myself responsible. Although I was on bc at the time, i DID get pregnant... but why was I with such a loser in the first place.
What does this boil down to? We all, male or female, need to make better choices as to who we lie down with... who we give ourselves to, because we may end up inadvertenly reproducing with this person.
Unless people learn to make better choices for themselves in the first place, all the court crap in the world wont make a bit of difference. Women will still get knocked up by deadbeats and men will still knock up idiots.... we have to take control of our lives and make better decisions. Otherwise, these innocent little creatures come into the world with all OUR BS weighing on their shoulders.

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Actually, you were the one who brought my DH into it. Not me. I am done talking about our individual situation.

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Dumber.than.a.box.of.rocks. So you posted about fathers rights, and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR DH? Somebody hold me.

And meremoonfawhatevergirl, you aren't fooling anyone by pretending one of your best net buddies subject is interesting. Do you all think the net was born yesterday?

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Dear Jacquie,
You were right about everything.
-Jacie

I don't find most of the debates on this board very interesting.
I find the back and forth battle between you all even less interesting.
I find the court systems interesting... I have been there, on both sides of the fence.
I have watched a dad try his best to get visits/access/custody with his son, and I have dealt with the deadbeat dad of my children...
One thing I have noticed, is that men seem more likely to walk away and give up the battle when they are single. If the dad has a new woman on his side, then he seems more likely to try to be more of an active part of the child's life.
I dont know why this is, maybe because us females sometimes act as the voice of reason and help convince the hubby that they need to re-connect with their child and try again?
With my oldest son, his dad never tried to see him. BUT as soon as he was married, that changed, suddenly he wanted to access his rights. But eventually the novelty wore off, and he slunk back to wherever it is he lives.
Oh.. the pedophile thing? My friend has a daughter that was molested by the father. As soon as this was discovered. My friend and her 4 children left, and the dad went to jail. For a whopping 18 months, minimum security. 2 years probation. As soon as the probation was done, the courts began to ENFORCE visits with his children, INCLUDING the daughter he molested. The daughter was royally p*ssed off. That first visit resulted in the daughter saying "You are not my dad. You are a sperm donor, you stopped being my 'dad' the day you decided to start touching me"... Sometimes the courts seem to get it all backwards. Incidentally, I know of two great women living in the states that through mere accusations of the ex husband, lost custody of their children and the battle still continues.
*jacie.... I am not choosing sides, Im just saying what I know from my own experiences... I have been where you were at with your d/h.... the courts crapped all over my d/h at the time... BUT i think alot of it has to do with the staying pwer of a woman. Women do better under stress like that. They generally are better at verbally defending themselves, they will argue and argue, whereas a man will get p*ssed off and give up. So, I dont know if it is completely biased against men, or if it is more to do with the fact that women come out the winners more frequently because we have the gift of patience.. and the gift of gab

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*points the silly twunt in the direction of the door*

Yes, I became more interested in this topic due to our experience. Does not mean that when I post about father's rights in general that we need to get into DH's personal case. AGAIN.

I actually thought that the system, along with people's attitudes, was unfair before I even met DH. I had one friend who had his child 5 days a week, the mother had her for 2 days. That was by choice, since she liked to go to the bar every night. The Dad provided food, clothing, diapers, toys, everything for the child while in his care. I remember a bunch of women sitting around one day complaining about what a jerk he was because he "was not paying his child support". What kind of attitude is that? She should have been paying him child support!

Anyways, this is stupid.

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It is not so much back and forth. If you have noticed, I do very little bashing. I could get into it but I am above that. However I have done some defending. Although I am done with that. I finally realized that I don't need to defend DH from someone who is not a threat. So a stranger thinks he's a jerk. So? I think he is just like a tall, cool glass of water (straight from the mouth of a vr nurse re DH). Yum!

Ditto!

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Well, I do find that men, unless given alot of support from those around him, tend to give up on custody/access etc. I'm not sure why that is. I know that in a courtroom... my kids dad, and myself... there is no contest. He gets mad, or flustered, even freaks out when the buttons get pushed or the questions are asked. For myself, I feel totally in control of myself when in that situation. I know how to get my point across and I understand what it is the questioner is getting at.... rather than get upset, and feel like its useless and give up, I am more prone to investigative research, making phonecalls, finding out my rights AND my responsibilities.
I think in general, when the going gets really tough in court, rather than bend and adjust, go with the flow , so to speak, they get fed up, frustrated and throw their hands up in the air "FORGET IT!" you know? Too emotionally difficult? Im not sure.
But when a guy has a woman at his side to say "It's okay honey, we'll just call this place and that place, and when they ask this, just answer with that..."etc etc....THEN things seem to change. It's like some men need to be guided through a process which women seem to deal with alot better.
Now, I didnt know your d/h when all that original custody stuff took place, so I cant say what went on there, but in my case, the dad was not intersted in jumping thorugh the 'hoops' put out there for him... BUT when he remarried, suddenly he wanted to be this great dad, and in all honesty, I was p*ssed. I thought, "who the hell do you think you are? Waltzing back into his life after all this time, just because your woman is telling you it's the right thing to do".
I had to get over that.It was definitely a sore spot with me.
But eventually I figured, ok... so what if it took the help of his wife to make him want to right his ways, at least he wants to try, at least now he finally wants to do this.... so I let it go. Then, as I said, the novelty wore off eventually anyhow, so it didnt matter, lol.

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mere, paragraph breaks are your friend. Use them, love them, embrace them.

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Dear Jacquie,
You were right about everything.
-Jacie