Do you even know what hateful means? I am NOT being hateful. If I were to go around saying "those damned fags" or "God hates fags", ect., THAT would be hateful.(a 'fag' btw is actually another word for cigarette...I think it's British. Not even sure how it came to be a derogatory term for a gay person) There are a lot of people out there that I don't think should raise children, that in itself does not make me a hateful person. I don't hate gay people. I think a child needs a mother and a father in their lives, how is that hateful? The OP also asked if single woman should use sperm donors, I don't agree with that either. I suppose that makes me hateful towards straight woman too.

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

So, despite the fact that a gay person can provide a loving environment for a child, they still should not raise a child? That child would be better off in the foster care system or dead or in an abusive family situation than be raised in a loving family by a gay couple?

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Jen
Mama to Nate 05/03/06
And 3 angels (01/07, 09/07, 01/08)
Expecting #2...dating u/s 3/19/2008

A loving environment is not enough. I don't doubt they can provide that. If they raise a child to know what the Bible says about homosexuality, that it is a sin and raise them believing God's word is truth, then I don't care how many kids they raise. The thing is they won't do that because they don't believe they are doing anything wrong.

You know, this debate is becoming pointless. I'm not changing my views and neither is anyone else, so really, what is the point? You all consider me an ignorant bigot and that's fine. Whatever. I find myself repeating things over and over again, so I guess I have nothing else to add.

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

I didn't read through all the posts, so forgive me if I'm restating something that has already been said, but can I just ask where is the advocacy for people who openly abuse their children to be denied the right to reproduce? Regardless of what your stance on homosexuality is, why isn't there a louder voice screaming for the rights of children that have a horrible existance with heterosexual parents? How do you reconcile your staunch disapproval for the one, and your silence on the other?


Kelli

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Ok. So what you're saying is that anyone who isn't going to raise their children with Christian beliefs has no place having children at all. So now only Christians should be allowed to procreate. Gotcha.


In regards to the OP-- I have no problem with single mothers or lesbians using sperm donors to have children.

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Ummm, this debate isn't about abusive parents. I assure you, I am not "silent" on that issue.

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

I REPEAT. PLEASE ADDRESS:
Corinthians
11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

sooo, Answer that. DO you cover your head in church? Do you cover your head when you pray? After all, it is DISGRACEFUL to not have your head covered in church or while in prayer... you SHOULD have all your hair shaved if you dare to pray without your head covered.That is in the New testament.. or has THAT been rewritten as well?

And on Sunday, I would hope you do not shop, or work or do ANYTHING but keep the day holy. And I hope you do not bow down before any image or pay homage to any idol in the image of anything from the heavens (like images of Jesus etc) because that ALSO is breaking one of the commandments. The children of these parents that do these things will be punished for the iniquity of their parents.

DO you, or have you read ALL of the bible? do you know of the astrocities of the "GOOD BOOK" that tells you what to think and how to think etc? You are a sheep. Sheep blindly follow with no idea why.
no offence.

I am glad to live in a place where gay marriage is recognized. Two very close lesbian friends of mine recently got married and it was a beautiful day indeed.
You say LOVE is not enough? LOL. YOU my dear have no idea of the world in which you live.

As the pp said, are you stating that only Christians should be allowed to be parents?

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I don't attend a church, but when I pray in my home I bow my head.

No, I do not work on weekends. I do tidy my house, but that's about it.

I do not worship idols of any kind.

You know, I am not perfect, I do not follow the Bible to a T. I do my best, that's all I can do. The good news is, I don't have to answer to anyone or please anyone except God. He is the one who will judge us. If you don't respect that, well then, I am sorry. That would make you....gee, what are the things people like to call me...ummm, ignorant and biggoted. I personally don't care if you look at me as those things, because your reasoning for me being ignorant and biggoted is because of my beliefs, beliefs that I am happy with.

No. I am saying that only a man and a woman should procreate. That is how God intended it. I don't care if you agree or not, that is how it is.

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

So, according to this, lesbians and gays should be allowed to parent, as long as they adopt or otherwise do not procreate themselves. How does this fit in with your nonsense drivel about lesbians not being parents at all?

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Jen
Mama to Nate 05/03/06
And 3 angels (01/07, 09/07, 01/08)
Expecting #2...dating u/s 3/19/2008

This statement leads one to beleive that as long as parents raise their children beleiving god's word is truth, that its all good....
So does that mean that only lesbians/homesexuals need to teach the WORD OF GOD?

You don't go to church? A christian follows the teachings of christ.... so how to you follow those teachings? Do you jsut pick a few good lines from that book, OR have you read every single thing in it so that you can make an informed intelligent decision?

Definition of Bigot "The origin of the word bigot in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of "religious hypocrite", especially a woman. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to their prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false."

So, how am I a bigot? Am I obstinately devoted to predjudices although my views have been challenged or proven to be false? umm..... no. THAT would be you. You base your life on a value system written aeons ago by MANY different people. Jesus did not write the bible. God did not write the bible. Men wrote the bible. And the bible's words have been changed repeatedly over and over and over again. the BIGGEST joke is the King James Version.
REAd about it. Learn about it. Educate yourself. Don't hide behind your ignorance...

oh, yes.. ignorant "1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors> 2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED

According to these definitions, I don't think I would be ignorant. I KNOW of lesbian and gay relationships, I KNOW of religion, catholicism, batist, jewish, pagan.And I am a mother of 3, hopefully soon to be 4. I may be ignorant of alot of mathematics, but in THIS particular discussion, ignorance is a word that is better suited to you.

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BIGOT
Ummm, that would include everyone, including you Shiloh.

INTOLERANT

Hmmm, this seems to fit everyone also.

At least I can admit to being these things. Get off the 'my sh*t don't stink' wagon and admit you are ignorant and biggoted too. You have already proven you are by the way in which you speak to/about me.

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

I gave a definition of ignorant. It would seem you are slightly ignorant of your bible. You don't seem to know all of what you preach.

You picked a nice choice of definitions for bigot..
DEFINITION FOR THE WORD BIGOT

Bigot \Big"ot\, n. [F. bigot a bigot or hypocrite, a name once
given to the Normans in France.
1. A hypocrite; esp., a superstitious hypocrite. [Obs.]

2. A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of
religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or
opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable
or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is
intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in
politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to
his own church, party, belief, or opinion.
http://dict.die.net/bigot/

I am not intolerant of a person's beliefs or creed or opinions... that means gays and homosexuals as well... i am intolerant however of beliefs that are used to opress other people , and I am intolerant of discrimination all in the name of RELIGION. I am intolerant of hatred , of prejudiceness , of abuse, of violence. Your beleifs or opinions are based on IGNORANCE and this, indeed I AM intolerant of.
BTW, Im not srue why you keep putting an 'h' on the end of my name. AS you can see in my siggy, there is no 'h'. Thank you.

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Umm....actually, this debate is about who you deem "worthy" enough to have children. I think it's a valid question, and by the way I don't need permission to add to the topics in this debate.

If you believe everything the Bible says, then you believe that sin is sin is sin. The fact that you want to deny two PEOPLE the right to have children based on their sexuality means that logically, you would have to work equally as hard, i.e. putting the issue on a ballet, to keep people who abuse their children from procreating, as well as those who gamble, lie, commit adultry. That's all sin isn't it? What place are you jumping off of Biblically that gives you the self righteousness to advocate the restriction of basic human rights for only one type of sin?

Kelli

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Shilo, I don't know why you feel the need to continue defining ignorant when I have clearly stated I am.

Never said you did.

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

Oh, is that on the same level as "I know you are but what am I?"

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I did not continue defining ignorant. I gave a definition once.
I continued to define BIGOT. Because YOU said that everyone here is a BIGOT, so I simply gave another definition for BIGOT, as you seemed to be confused as to its meaning. Please show me where it is that I am continuing to give definitions for ignorant.
I may have stated that you are ignorant more than once. But I am not continuing to define it.

As far as being intolerant, there is NOTHING wrong with being intolerant of things that are hateful, discriminating, prejudiced and opressive. And there is nothing wrong with being tolerant of peoples differences, and personal lives as long as it isnt affecting and/or causing harm to others.

Quote for Peace ~
"The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within
the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness
with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the
center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is
really everywhere, it is within each of us."
Black Elk (1863-1950)

I am a spiritual person. However, I do not believe that following a book written over many years, by many men, in which many MANY passages were omitted due to content and MANY were added, as suited the time, should be a basis for morals. NOR should it be a substitute for logical rational thought and common decency.

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PITY ME THEN...

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Well Kim, as I said, I wont pity someone because they are Christian. That's not my point, however, i do pity people that feel resentment or hatred etc towards gay people, or who due to their religious beleifs don't think gay's should be parents. Or that women are less than men etc...

Much of the bible is ignored or re-written, as the poster has mentioned herself. Especially in the New TEstament. Sooo, if certain things in the bible are no longer adhered to, because they have been deemed outdated, or incorrect, then why is not also okay to say, "hey, as long as they are loving, good people, why CANT they be parents, gay or not?"

WHY is it okay for SOME parts of the bible to be ignored, but not others?
According to the bible, as another person has mentioned, sex which is NOT for procreation is a sin. So, does this mean that for all the years my tubes were tied, and that I was having sex, that it was a sin?
For that matter, it is a sin to prevent pregnancy, so does this mean for us women who had our tubes tied, or who use birth control, that THAT also is a sin?

There are hundreds of rules in the bible that are meant to govern our day to day living. NOT being gay is only one of MANY rules. And MANY of those rules are no longer deemed accurate.

So why pick out one thing and say "IT is wrong because God says so. BUT these other things that are wrong, we do because it is a new day and age and no longer practical" WHO decides that it is time to change "the word of God" And who decides WHAT it is that is okay to change?

That is my position in the discussion with the poster.

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