I answered your questions and commented on some of the things you said, I was not looking for a reaction, I was answering the questions asked of me. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, don't ask me questions. Pretty simple.

Of course you can respect my choice to not hit my children, it is a choice worth respect. Sorry, the same can not be said for the choice to hit small defenseless children.

I really am not trying to change your mind, it is my hope that some day this country will wake up and pull its head out of its a$$ and protect children, like they protect adults.

I know spanking a child is not illegal, but it sure should be. Hitting anyone other than your own child is illegal, children should get the same protection. You can try to make it seem like you are doing nothing wrong by wrapping it up in a "nice" term, but it is still hitting. There is no getting around that, and when you (or anyone) try to say that spanking is not hitting you just make yourself look stupid. Of course it is hitting, look up hitting in the dictionary, I am sure what you read will describe the act that you use when you "spank".

And where did I ever say everyone has to agree with me? Unlike you I understand this is a debate board, people debate here. That is what I am doing. I am telling you my side, you are telling me your side, and we completely disagree. If I think that makes you a complete moron than I will say it, and in return you can tell me just how you feel about me.

I will make it simple for you:

Me:

I think spanking is wrong.
I think it should be illegal.
I think it is abuse.
I think there are a zillion other ways to raise a child.
I think you are a moron if you spank.

You:

I think spanking is GREAT!
I will spank my child, but I will be calm when I do it.
My brain doesn't work so instead of thinking of non violent ways to raise my children I will simply do what is easiest, spank them.
BTW spanking is NOT hitting, I don't know where anyone came up with a crazy comparison like that?
Spanking is not abuse, it is fun times for all!
I think Kim did a fantastic job raising her son, spanking really taught him right from wrong!
If you think differently than me than you are not debating, and I don't want to hear it. *finger in ear*LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU*finger in ear*

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Sarah, SAHM to:

DS Jordan 10 years

DD Camryn 7 years

DD Hannah 4 years

I have always respected your position on issues Sarah. We both posted on born in 7/03 and have similar views on some topics. And there is nothing wrong with a healthy debate. But, I don't respect your lack of maturity in calling people stupid and a moron, or saying their brain doesn't work because they feel differently about a topic than you do. Do you teach your kids that it is ok to call people names who feel differently about things than they do? And to assume that all children that are spanked are going to turn out bad, is ridiculous. You have nothing to back that up.
As far as definitions go here is the definition of spanking:
"The art of slapping on the buttocks"
Definition of hitting:
"to come into contact with forcefully"
Defition of abuse:
"to use wrongly or improperly"

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The three men in my life

HOST OF BORN IN FEBRUARY 2008

"Parents hold their children's hand for a little while...their hearts forever"

Lori, SAHM Mommy To Brooks Todd born 9-13-01, Phelps "Brady" born 7-4-03
Kinsadie Angelina-Marie born 2/23/08
Angel babies Sept '00 & Jan '07

Please check out my store for custom baby accessories
http://hyenacart.com/sadiebugpatches/

Unfortunately not all abused(and I mean truly abused kids, not kids who are disciplined)can be protected which is why some children die at the hands of their abusers. However, there are laws that put these bastards in jail or give them lethal injections for the crimes that they have committed.

Actually, the ones who look stupid are the ones who accuse good parents of abuse, when what they consider abuse isn't illegal. Maybe you should actually go spend time with a child who has been severely beaten and focus your energy on stopping this horrible act rather than on parents who discipline their child. Maybe you need to be enlightened on the differences between abuse and discipline, because although you said you saw your mom beaten, you obviously have no clue as to the difference. I too saw my mom beaten and I know the difference. Do everyone a favor and get involved in helping to end child abuse by actually educating yourself on what child abuse acually is. Start by looking up the definition.

Kim

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

Kim, I know there is a difference between a spanking and a beating. However both are HITTING. You are hitting someone if you swat them gently or if you punch them with all your force. It is still hitting, just different degrees. If you see nothing wrong with spanking than why is it so damn hard for you to just admit what you are doing? And that is hitting your children.

Do you teach your children that it is ok to hit others? You do it, so am I to assume that you teach them to do it as well? Of course I don't teach my children to call names. Don't be silly. Can you show me where I said that all children who are spanked will turn out bad? I don't think I have said that, and if I did I must have been drunk. I know there are plenty of children who are spanked and turn out fine. Others are not so lucky and grow up to continue the cycle with their own children. Or they grow up to be sociopaths.

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Sarah, SAHM to:

DS Jordan 10 years

DD Camryn 7 years

DD Hannah 4 years

With regards to your comment above to Kim, yes, spanking is hitting. But spanking is NOT abuse, the definitions prove that, the law proves that.

No, I do not teach my kids that it is ok to hit others, as you said "don't be silly." But my kids are NEVER put in a position of discipline to/on others, as I am as their parent. You did not say that all kids that are spanked will turn out bad. Your comment was with regards to Kim's son. Assuming that the issues he had later in life were due to him being spanked as a child. In the above comment, you assume all sociopaths were spanked. You have no way to know the history of everyone, so you cannot make comments like that based on anything but your opinion.
It really doesn't matter whether you spank your kids, or you don't. They are YOUR children, as my kids are my children. HOWEVER, it is not healthy for anyone to call others names or generalize people together, based on opinion only.

__________________

The three men in my life

HOST OF BORN IN FEBRUARY 2008

"Parents hold their children's hand for a little while...their hearts forever"

Lori, SAHM Mommy To Brooks Todd born 9-13-01, Phelps "Brady" born 7-4-03
Kinsadie Angelina-Marie born 2/23/08
Angel babies Sept '00 & Jan '07

Please check out my store for custom baby accessories
http://hyenacart.com/sadiebugpatches/

I believe Kim's son turned out the way he has for many reasons, not just spanking. I have known Kim on the boards for YEARS. I know all about her "parenting" choices. If you add up all the negative things going on it is not hard to think that her way of doing things can (and looks like it has) have a very negative outcome.

I never said the things I am saying are based on fact, of course they are all opinion. Just like you thinking hitting your children will not have a negative outcome. That is not fact, that is your opinion.

It is your opinion that calling people names is unhealthy, I disagree. We are talking about adults here. If an adult can't handle being called a name on a debate board for adults for their controversial opinions than it is they who have the problem, not the name caller. I was not calling her a moron to hurt her feelings, I was saying it because I honestly believe it. If she feels she is not a moron than my comment should not have offended her. Just like you saying I am not mature didn't hurt my feelings, because I know it is not true. It is my opinion that spanking is not healthy, for anyone. You disagree. I guess the debate is going nowhere.

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Sarah, SAHM to:

DS Jordan 10 years

DD Camryn 7 years

DD Hannah 4 years

Obviously you don't because you put spanking in the same catagory as a beating which is abusive. If you knew the difference you wouldn't say they are the same thing.

Sarah, you don't know JACK about me or the way I parent my kids. For you to make ASSumptions about me and the reasons you think my son turned out the way he did, well, it's just ridiculous. Do you even know what a sociopath is? Have you researched it? Sociopathic behaviors are mostly genetic, so because I actually know his biological father, I can tell you this is exactly what he was. The other possible cause is maternal deprivation with lack of discipline and/or attention in the first 5 years of life. Now I have admitted the first 2 1/2 years of his life he spent a great deal of time with my mom while I worked, and with her he got no discipline and everything he wanted. Getting mixed messages probably didn't help, but he was getting plenty of love and discipline from me. When I got married, he finally had a stable home with love, attention(as I was a SAHM from the time he was 3 until almost 2 years ago when he was 13)and discipline. By the time I went back to work he was already getting into serious trouble, so that is why I go back to it being genetics.

I wish I knew what "all the negative things" are that you are talking about. Not that I care, because what you think means nothing to me. It won't change anything.

Kim

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

I don't know Kim. I know nothing about her son, her parenting choices, etc. It seems from her most recent reply that you "know" her based on posts that she has made, and you have made on the boards over the years.

You are right, we are all adults here. And for that reason, we should all be mature enough to state our opinions as adults and not have to resort to name calling to try to make our opinions valid. Your opinion isn't more effective because you think I am a moron or don't use my brain to come up with other ways of discipling my children. AND when you state things like the latter, you are assuming that parents who spank ONLY use that form of discpline. While I have spanked my children, we have other forms of discpline put in to place in our home, for times that we feel spanking is not necessary. We are not parents who spank every time our children do something wrong. There are parents out there that do that, and I do not feel that is healthy.


Debate as a noun: "a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoint"
as a verb: "to engage in argument or discussion"

The debate can go somewhere if people can do it as adults and not stoop down to the level of name calling and ridicule.

__________________

The three men in my life

HOST OF BORN IN FEBRUARY 2008

"Parents hold their children's hand for a little while...their hearts forever"

Lori, SAHM Mommy To Brooks Todd born 9-13-01, Phelps "Brady" born 7-4-03
Kinsadie Angelina-Marie born 2/23/08
Angel babies Sept '00 & Jan '07

Please check out my store for custom baby accessories
http://hyenacart.com/sadiebugpatches/

Lori, that is exactly it, she "knows" me based on what she reads in my posts, that's it. She doesn't actually know me, she has NEVER been to my house, she has NEVER seen my kids, so she knows NOTHING about me or my kids. She presumes to know me and therefore feels she can make assumptions based on that presumption. It's ridiculous.

As far as name calling, I admit I am guilty of that. It's probably not an excuse, but I do it in retaliation. When someone starts calling me names or accusing me of something I haven't done, I tend to get a little defensive, especially when it is something as serious as calling me a child abuser.

We also use other methods, like time outs or re-direction. Spanking is rare in our house anymore. It really doesn't work as well as it used to. Our kids HATE getting taken out of whatever they are doing to sit down, in fact many times they would prefer a spanking.

Kim

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

Some people, not saying Sarah is one, but some people, tend to think of people posting information about their life on message boards as being what actually happens 24/7 in someone's life. For instance, you might say, I spank my child, or my child drinks soda. Those type of people can then say, oh she is a child abuser, or she is a parent who puts soda in her baby's bottle. For most though, it actually takes getting to know someone outside of a message board, to really feel they "KNOW" a person.

I think we all are guilty of retaliation when someone angers us etc. AND that, especially on a message board, is best expressed with name calling etc. But when people use it in their defense of their position, it really makes me feel like that person has no other means to support their views, than to call others names.

__________________

The three men in my life

HOST OF BORN IN FEBRUARY 2008

"Parents hold their children's hand for a little while...their hearts forever"

Lori, SAHM Mommy To Brooks Todd born 9-13-01, Phelps "Brady" born 7-4-03
Kinsadie Angelina-Marie born 2/23/08
Angel babies Sept '00 & Jan '07

Please check out my store for custom baby accessories
http://hyenacart.com/sadiebugpatches/

Seriously, what was the point of this? What was your goal here? Obvously you were being extreme and unreasonable, were you trying to make me look bad? Because instead it really makes you seem immature to put those words in my mouth and actually include "la la la..."
It really looses any credibility you had. I'm sure you're smarter than that, so I don't understand what your goal was there.

Any form of disclipline I discuss here is hypothetical, as my only child is an infant and has a long time before any form of disclipline is necessary.
Will I use spankings in the future as a form of disclipline? I don't know, but I'm not ruling it out. Do I think spanking can be used as disclipline if handled in the right way? Yes.
The right way in my book is;
rare
not done in anger
never done with any object
and reserved for certain situations

These situations include anytime the safety of my child or others is in question, like if my child walked down to the creek behind my house after I told her not to. Or ran into the street.

If I do use spankings for disclipline, then during a time I deem necessary, I would tell her what she did wrong and that she needs to go to my or her bedroom to wait for me, then after a few minutes she would recieve the spanking. I don't think it should be hard, I think the anticipation should be the worst part.
I would rather spank her and know that she's never going to run into that street again, than just hope that she understood why she shouldn't run in the street.

I agree with Lori, it seems as if you assume that because we're not against spankings, we do it all the time and enjoy it.

Even if I do decide to spank my children, it will not be the primary form of disclipline. I don't see it as the lazy or easy way out, but it will not be the answer to all or even most of discliplinary situations.


So what would you do if, say, you found your 6 year old walked himself to the neighborhood park, which took crossing a street or two? How would you handle that?

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If your child does either of those things at an age that it is dangerous for them than you will have nobody but yourself to blame. It is not fair to the child to hit them because you were not paying attention. And the only thing that teaches is that they will get hit if they do it. Sorry, I want my child to understand WHY something is wrong, and make an informed choice the next time. I do not want them to not do something simply because they fear they will get hit. Sure it might take more time to teach them not to do something, but I think it is extremely important.

That wouldn't happen in the first place because at 6 years old I am still keeping a close eye on my child. I would know in a second if my child left the house. If for some crazy reasont they did get out of the house, I would know long before they had crossed two busy streets. Now if a miricle happened and they did manage to get all the way to the park, I am not sure what spanking would do? Again, like above, I want my children to understand WHY something is dangerous, and WHY I have the rules I do.

I believe in logical consequences. It would not be very logical to hit the child for going to a park. The logical consequence would be to not allow them to go to the park (for however long you think would be best). I would explain to my 6 year old that I was disappointed in them (that normally is very effective with most children, they do not want to make their parents sad) and that what they did was not only wrong, but very dangerous. I would explain that crossing a busy street (or any street) alone is not safe and that even if you look both ways sometimes a car can just sneak up on you and the driver might not be paying attention. I would then let them know that the park is off limits for a while until they can show me that they can be safe and trustworthy.

There is no need to hit in that situation, there is no need to hit ever. You can raise a very happy, healthy, respectful child without hitting them, so I can't imagine why anyone would resort to violence if there is no need. I just don't get it.

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Sarah, SAHM to:

DS Jordan 10 years

DD Camryn 7 years

DD Hannah 4 years

So I take this to mean you think those of us who spank aren't talking to our children about WHY something is wrong, we just simply spank them and that's where it stops??? Boy, are you ever wrong. No wonder you are so blind.

Wow, you are just the perfect parent then aren't you. You must have your kids on a leash. So what would you tell a parent who's child ran off and fell into a pond or some other form of water....they were a bad parent and it is their fault their child died? Obviously you would, or you wouldn't make the statement "If your child does either of those things at an age that it is dangerous for them than you will have nobody but yourself to blame." How incredibly sad, not to mention rude.

Same can be said about kids who are spanked. They can be happy, healthy and respectful even with a spanking.

Kim

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

*LURKING*
I am on the photography board and was just looking around, I am a 13 y/o girl and all growing up I have gotten spanked if I did something wrong. I think that it HAS helped me figure out what was right and wrong!! My mom has 8 kids and we all have gotten spanked, we have all realized when we do something wrong we get our butt spanked, and we don't do it again. But IMO you guys are being ridiculous, I understand that this is a debate but can't you have an adult conversation w/o all the name calling.

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Thanks Kristina (Sissy_Mommy) ^


www.flickr.com/jadenlarson/

Um no I am not a perfect parent, not even close. And no, my kids are not on a leash, but there is no reason why any parent wouldn't know where their 6 year old is. We are not talking about a 13 year old here. Yes that is EXACTLY what I would tell a parent who had a child die.

Sure, but if it can be done without hitting, WHY would you resort to that?

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