I have been reading the long thread about spanking and such that I started long ago. Well now I have lots of questions on GD. What is it? I am currently pregnant and having a hard time with my 2 year old. We went to a tractor pull the other day and he ran from me. Right onto the track. I was yelling stop stop, but he thought it was a game. It really got me shaking. When I caught him, I was almost in tears, and spanked him, in front of everyone. I felt like a horibble, failure of a mom. We stopped doing timeouts because they were not working, spanking doesn't work. He just laughs and sometimes hits back. Ok, sorry for the long rant of a post, but something with MY parenting style needs to change. I admit that. I just do not know what to do anymore.

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Ever watching Supernanny?

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...discipline.php
http://www.fresnofamily.com/ap/gentle.htm
http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMayJun05p94.html

No, but thanks for the links.

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She actually has a lot of ideas and, imo, most of them are a form of gentle parenting, such as a time-out mat, etc.

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formerly pwfaith

Well, imo, gentle discipline is not spanking. Timeouts and redirection. Doing NOTHING is NOT discipline. Just TALKING to the child is NOT discipline. Doing things FOR them rather than making THEM do it, is NOT discipline.

If you choose not to spank, great. We have really tried to stop spanking so much and it is now rare that my kids get spanked. Timeouts work much better. Yes, I do isolate my kids and keep them from doing things, it works. We used to spank thinking it was biblically based, but have since learned that it's not, which is why we don't do it as much anymore.

As far as Supernanny, gotta love the 'naughty chair'. I think she has some great ideas.

I think you must do whatever works for your family and not listen to anyone who says you are wrong, whether you spank or use timeouts, as long as you are doing SOMETHING to make your child realize he/she is doing wrong and trying to correct the behavior, you are absolutely not doing anything wrong.

Kim

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

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I'm sorry but, "as long as you are doing something?" DId you ever stop to think that the child may not understand that something is wrong?

I can't believe that you really think that spanking a child makes him or her realize anything. All they realize is, my Mom just intentionally hurt me. Its basically teaching violence.

Nice.



I highly recommend the Suppernanny show and book. She does also explain why hitting children in anyway does damage to them, when done at an early age.

Oh BULLSHIT. While I am trying to stay away from spankings and using more timeouts, spanking does NOT teach my children violence, what a crock of ****. Do you know what violence is? Have you ever watched your mom get BEAT? Have YOU ever been BEAT? Not spanked(because whether you or anyone else wants to realize it, there IS a difference)BEATEN. I think it is extremely sad that anyone could possibly compare the 2. A swat on the the butt HARDLY signifies violence. If spankings are used with an object, THAT is when I would call it violence and abuse.

Love that show. And yes, hitting your child could damage them. Duh. However, IMO spanking is not hitting. I was not spanked as a child and looking back on how I was as a child, wish like you wouldn't believe that I had been. I would even lie to my friends and tell them I did get spanked, just so they wouldn't think I was spoiled and got away with things I did wrong.

Let me ask you, what do you say to the people on this topic who don't believe in discipline AT ALL? What are they teaching their children? I personally don't think they are teaching them anything, except how to manipulate her, especially the one who said if she tells her child to do something and they won't do it, she does it for them. WTF?

Kim

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

Nice mouth. lol.

You really don't know me from Adam so, how do you know if I haven't been in either of those situations? P.S. I've lived through both. And that is precisely why I don't believe in any kind of hitting as a form of discipline.

Who said that they don't believe in all discipline? I must have missed that post. Children don't have the same thought process as adults have so, while you think your children are scheming and manipulating. They may be just acting like KIDS. Sometimes people expect too much from children.

I suggest you read some child development books.

I just call it as I see it.

Both situations as in watching someone you love get beat and you yourself being in an abusive situation? Guess what, I have lived through both as well which is WHY I KNOW the difference between abuse and discipline.

Oh sorry, they don't believe in "punishment". I see punishment and discipline as the same things.

Nope, it's manipulation. They learn this VERY early in life. When my kids were still infants, they would be in their cribs and cry and cry and cry. When I walked into the room they would still cry. As soon as I picked them up, the crying stopped. When I would put them down they would cry again. While some may give me the "oh they just wanted your attention" bullshit, I know that isn't true. I gave them plenty of cuddling during the day when they were awake, but at night it was time for them to sleep. Had I held them every time they cried, they would have never learned to sleep on their own. How do I know this, because I picked my oldest son up as a baby EVERY time he cried. He was almost 3 before he slept on his own. With all 3 of my other boys, I didn't pick them up every time and they slept on their own by a year. Point is, I didn't give in to the manipulation with my last 3, but I did with my first. I gave my oldest way more attention as a baby than I did with the others and he was(and here's a word you won't like to hear)SPOILED.

Why? With exception to my oldest son who made some bad choices and got into trouble with the law, I have raised 3 perfectly healthy, and for the most part pretty well behaved boys. All of whom have been and are still ocassionally spanked. I also give them timeouts, which some on this board have also pointed out is wrong to do. I'm sorry, but if I tell my children to pick up their toys and they refuse, they are going to have a consequence. I will not do it for them. That would not teach them anything. This is another example of manipulation. If you ask your child to pick up their toys, they say no and you do it for them, what are they going to do the next time you ask them to pick up their toys? Ummm, they are going to purposely not pick toys up because mommy did it for them before. Manipulation.

Think what you want about me. I know I am doing the best I can with my kids so it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks about how I discipline them.

Kim

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

I hate to tell you but, you a perpetuating the cycle of violence. You boys are likely to grow up to be abusers. Read up on it.

I beg to differ. I think that gentle discipline or redirection will always work best when properly applied.


Wow. Just wow. That is so sad that you actually believe that a BABY has the mind and intelligence to do something like that. You are so totally off base. Your baby is crying because, it needs something. Yes, it could be your soothing that it craves. What's so wrong with that? DO you actually think that babies understand what "night time" is? That they understand that they must sleep at certain times? I don't think that so many new Moms would be so sleep deprived if that were the case.

Again, this strikes me as so sad. Do you realize that you are talking about "spoiling" a BABY??? Sweet mother of mary. You are a piece of work.


I wonder why?


There are plenty of ways to handle a situation like this. That's why I suggested a child development or child rearing book. You could offer to help pick up the toys so the child understands that, its not all that bad. You could make a game out of it. Such as offering something fun if the child picks up everything in a certain amount of time, and set a time clock. You could offer a consequence, such as no dessert after dinner if the child doesn't pick up the toys.

Simply put, you do NOT need to resort to violence to raise healthy kids. There are plenty of options. No, its not easy. Spanking is easy. You need to do some research so the rest of you boys don't end up "in trouble with the law", or worse.

I'm new here but I just had to say, this to me is pretty off.
How can spanking (inflicting pain in a child for discipline) NOT teach violence? You are teaching to hit when something is done wrong. Not good.

How is spanking not hitting? That makes NO sense to me at all. In order to spank you have to hit, swat, pop, etc.
If you agree that hitting a child can damage them, then obviously spanking can damage a child. *because you have to hit in order to spank*

WTF are you talking about? I don't abuse my kids, I don't beat them. So please tell me how you can tell me whom you don't know, that my children, whom you also don't know, will grow up to be abusers? They do not live in a violent home, so I'm not seeing how you come to that conclusion. My dh was spanked as a child, he is not a violent person. My dad, whom was the abuser in my family growing up was not abused nor spanked as a child. Who did he learn it from? Since you are all expert like, please tell me why this is so? You don't know jack.

I believe discipline period will work if applied properly. Meaning, if you spank, use timeouts or rediredtion, if they are used consistantly and at proper times, it will work best. As long as you are doing something to correct the behavior. Not everything works for everyone the same way.

If you are consistant in teaching them what it is, yes, they will eventually learn.

Sure do. Maybe you didn't have one or maybe you did and just don't want to admit it. IMO, picking up a baby everytime it cries is spoiling the baby. I'm not talking about newborns, I'm talking about babies around 6 months or older. But I also believe in letting babies CIO, which I would venture to guess you think is horrible also, which is fine for you.

Why he made the choice to break the law? I don't know. He wanted to be "cool" and thought he would achieve that by stealing from people.

Oh good God. The only thing I have done if my children refuse to pick their toys up is set a timer and if they won't get it done in a certain amount of time, I will pick the toys up and they lose them for a week. I will NOT make a game out of listening to me and following directions, that is NOT teaching them anything except again how to manipulate me.


It's not sad at all. It's fact. I believe it because I have dealt with it.

Thank you. I already know this though. It's a good thing I don't do this.

Ohhhhh, so what you're saying is because my oldest son was spanked is why he CHOSE to break the law. And I'm a piece of work. I think it is YOU who needs to do some research my dear, because you have NO idea what in the hell you are talking about. We have been to MANY phycologists about my son, with my son, they ALL knew he was spanked and you know what, not ONE of them blamed spanking as the cause of his behavior. I think you need to quit while you think you're ahead, because you know NOTHING.

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

Do have any idea just how foolish you sound? You're a mess.

'I ignored my babies when they cried and spanked them at will, and have nooooooo idea why one of my kids has already been to jail and has serious issues.'



About says it all. There's a difference between 'country' and 'southern', and this is a pretty good example of that.

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Sara

Suburban Oblivion

I don't sound foolish at all. I was actually thinking the same thing about you and anyone else you assumes to know me or anything about my parenting skills. You have implied that my discipline methods caused my son to make the choices he made when ALL of the ACTUAL experts have told me he has sociopathic tendancies which is NOT at all any fault of mine. So unless you have read the reports done on him or have talked to ANYONE directly involved with him, kindly keep your mouth shut, because as I said, you know NOTHING. It is YOU who is being foolish.

Please read the above statement and apply it to yourself as well. Oh, and BTW, you are way off base, but I'm sure you already know that since the above quote does not fit me at all. I never said I ignored my children, I said I didn't pick them up EVERY time they cried....doesn't equate to ignoring them. Never spanked them "at will" since that implies I just wacked them whenever I got the urge. As far as the 'why' of my son being in "jail" (it's actually a juvenile correctional facility)he made bad choices. That's why he is where he is. I never told him to do the things he did, and my spanking him had nothing to do with his choices. He made them ALL BY HIMSELF. My mom tried to blame me too even after she was told by the experts this was not the case. She doesn't think people who go to college know more than she does. I'm beginning to see that with some of you here too.

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

We love Supernanny. We use the naughty corner, you can use a mat, chair, whatever. I have 2 of them, one for each kid and they know where it is for them. My 5yo will even set his own timer, 5 minutes for him and 4 minutes for his 4yo brother. They get warnings, of course they know the rules ahead of time. If after a warning the behavior does not stop, then they go to the corner. Since we have implemented this in our home, it has made a huge difference in their behavior. I also don't feel as angry when they do something wrong, since we all know the discipline that is going to happen, noone gets upset.
We do still spank for major things. Running out in a tractor pull that could possibly have resulted in severe injury is cause for a spanking. However, I don't think a 2yo can understand the magnitude of what possibly could have happened to him/her and therefore I would not have spanked for that if my child was 2. If it was one of my kids, ages 4 and 5, and they still continued out there after being told to stop, yep they would have gotten a spanking. I LOL the other day when I saw a kid hit his sister in the store and the mom turned to him, yelled "We don't hit" as she smacked him on the hand. Hmm, I bet he was confused.
We also have implemented a reward chart. They get a reward at the end of the week depending on how many Xs they have on their chart. One x is for not having been in the naughty corner each day. The reward can be anything from ice cream out to being able to pick that weekends movie, or I have a goodie bag of small items I purchased at the dollar store. They really look foward to the chart and are proud when they put their Xs on it.
My thought on spanking is simple. I believe in it, it is discussed in the Bible. I do believe that if used often it can be an ineffective tool. A kid that gets spanked all the time finds it to not be a big deal. You cannot spank out of anger. If you are angry when you spank your child, it can turn violent and your spanking, while not necessarily needing to be painful, can become harmful to the child.
All kids need discipline. I have a friend who does not discipline her child and wow, she is out of control at 3yo. They also have few rules in their house, stating that she and her siblings need to be able to explore their world and learn. That can mean using a sharp knife, turning on the stole or playing with scissors. Kids need direction and guidance. I didn't have very strict parents when I was growing up, but they were strict enough. I remember one time my BFF from high school telling me how she wished her mom was more strict so she knew that she loved her. That was sad to hear, but now I can see her point. If you don't have rules or discipline I really think it shows you don't care.

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I take my patriotism VERY seriously

Brotherly Love

HOST OF BORN IN FEBRUARY 2008

"Parents hold their children's hand for a little while...their hearts forever"

Lori, SAHM Mommy To Brooks Todd born 9-13-01, Phelps "Brady" born 7-4-03
Kinsadie Angelina-Marie born 2/23/08
Angel babies Sept '00 & Jan '07

Lori, I think what you have said describes how I strive to be with my kids. We rarely spank them anymore, only for major things. Timeouts are MUCH more effective as they don't like being taken away from the things they are doing.

I used to believe this also and used the Bible to back up my reason for spanking, however after researching it, came to the conclusion that "spare the rod, spoil the child" does not mean to spank. 'Rod' is not litteral, 'rod' is speaking of discipline. Anyways, after learning that, I stopped using that as my reason for spanking and actually it was also at that point I decided to cut back on spanking and use more time outs.

Kim

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"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." -- Ronald Reagan

hmm I was spanked as a child and I am not out abusing anyone. spankings used to be acceptable and I bet at least 50% of kids were spanked back in the day and I bet a very very small majority of them ever turned out to be abusers

I believe in spanking; open palm, no object, clothed bottom. And believe it should be used only in certain situations and never out of anger-

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