A new thread on------------------------gay movement.

[neubie]

Picking on the previous thread re wearing gay pride tshirts, I thought that it deserved a thread of its' own.

Although I am neutral re gays, I have no use for the gay movement. It is nothing other than an effort to bring into mainstream being gay or gay lifestyle. I think in the western media, efforts are on to almost glamourise being gay.
I think that homosexualtiy is a deviant behaviour like pedophilia is a deviant behaviour. Saying that there is a degree of separation between the two is irrelevant and a diversion from the topic of this thread. If two consenting adults engage in deviant behaviour, with each other, I have no problem. Whatever cooks their goose. But, IMO, it is still wrong to glamourise such behaviour and unfortunately that is what is going on!

Another sore point with me is the overtly aggressive behaviour by gays advertising their difference at every opportunity available.
If you want to be treated equally, demand equal treatment. When you wear t-shirts decalring that you are gay for a function that has nothing to do with gay rights, you either want to distinguish yourself from others ( which is apposite of hoped for inclusion) or you are looking for a preferential treatment. Touting your 'gay'ness does not lead to equal treatment. If you do indeed want acceptance within the society for a"different" sexual orientation, how can it be served by an in your face display of it? Indeed, showing that you are no different than a heterosexual in all other important aspects, would bring a greater acceptance IMO.

For the record, I beleive in, and endorse equality in every respect between heterosexuals and gays. A gay couple should have equal right that a heterosexual couple has.

This may be too politically incorrect for many of you or just plain wrong. So flame away.

[snickers]

Although I am neutral re gays,

I think that homosexualtiy is a deviant behaviour like pedophilia is a deviant behaviour. Saying that there is a degree of separation between the two is irrelevant and a diversion from the topic of this thread. If two consenting adults engage in deviant behaviour, with each other, I have no problem. Whatever cooks their goose. But, IMO, it is still wrong to glamourise such behaviour and unfortunately that is what is going on

Doesn't seem so neutral to me. Seriously likening them to pedophilia? Then saying to seperate that is a deviation from the topic of the thread?

[C'estMoi]

Oh, the buttnuggets of whizdumb in the OP. So special.

[Mumfie]

Flame away? No point. You are too stupid to waste any energy on.

[Jescafa]

Wow, I have no response.

[geela]

Are you aware of the bell curve theory of sexuality? In essence this theory proposes that sexuality is a bell curve with pure heterosexuality at one end and pure homosexuality at the other. Thus most of us fall somewhere in the middle. However, since we are conditioned by society that only heterosexuality is acceptable most people never act upon same sex attraction and denial of said attraction is huge.

There is much, much more than a degree of separation between homosexuality and pedophilia. Pedophilia, like rape, is not about sex, but about power. The feeling of power these individuals get from making their victim's do sexual things is what they are after, not the sex itself and certainly not love.

[neubie]

Originally Posted by geela There is much, much more than a degree of separation between homosexuality and pedophilia. Pedophilia, like rape, is not about sex, but about power. The feeling of power these individuals get from making their victim's do sexual things is what they are after, not the sex itself and certainly not love.

Ok, agreed, that was an extreme comparison. But my point is that it is a deviant behaviour. I was simply not comparing it with the "sexual power" aspects of pedophilia. Obviously I put my point across WRONG.

But the wholepoint of the post was about glamourising of the homosexual lifestyle inthe media!

[geela]

What exactly is deviant about it? If the majority of people have same sex attraction to one degree or another how can it be deviant?

As for the media glamorizing it, please give some examples, as I just don't see it.

[Emaline]

Saying that there is a degree of separation between the two is irrelevant and a diversion from the topic of this thread.

I hate this crap. You put this out there. This is a debate board. We have every right to comment on crap that you put into a debate. If you do not want it debated, then write your words more carefully and don't put this type of thing in there. If it is irrelevant to the debate, then why did you feel the need to post it? Frankly this comment is irrelevant because you did post it and since you did, we can debate and talk about it.

I think you are being very hypocritical:

I think that homosexualtiy is a deviant behaviour like pedophilia is a deviant behaviour.

Is your first comment then to be followed up by:

If two consenting adults engage in deviant behaviour, with each other, I have no problem. Whatever cooks their goose.

and then:

For the record, I beleive in, and endorse equality in every respect between heterosexuals and gays. A gay couple should have equal right that a heterosexual couple has.

If this is the case, then do you also respect and endorse pedophilia? You said they are both deviant behaviors and compared the two. So therefore there is a link in your mind between the two of them. And for the love of all that is holy, you could not come up with one other deviant behavior in your mind to compare homosexuality to (since you felt the need to do it in the first place) other then pedophiles? Honestly? Seriously? And you expect us to believe that you respect and endorse equal rights for homosexuals?

What is deviant about it? The fact that there are two people who love each other? Oh hell we can't have that! That is evil. That is awful. We don't want a loving committed couple together. wrong wrong wrong!

You say deviant because it is outside of what the society considers to be normal. Well for many people now and for most of society back only 50 years or so, you didn't marry outside of your own race. You didn't marry outside of your religion. It was considered deviant behavior and in many places illegal. Were those people correct in their thinking? Should those behaviors still be considered deviant?

I think you should step outside of your own sphere here and look at things from their perspective. They do not have equal rights and for them, it is a fight to get it. You say you want them to have those equal rights but you don't want them to glamourize this "deviant" behavior. So once again, I ask what is deviant about it? How should they go about getting equal rights? By doing the don't ask don't tell policy? Once again you are saying that they are different and by being different they should be treated seperately. The heterosexual culture is celebrated every day in books, magazines, TV, movies, billboards you name it. If you believe in equal rights, why can't homosexuals have the same?

[neubie]

Originally Posted by Emaline If this is the case, then do you also respect and endorse pedophilia? You said they are both deviant behaviors and compared the two. So therefore there is a link in your mind between the two of them.

I talked about two consenting adults. That by definition excludes pedophilia! It is a deviant sexual behaviour so I compared it. As I said I know that it is not really the same thing beyond that.

You say deviant because it is outside of what the society considers to be normal. Well for many people now and for most of society back only 50 years or so, you didn't marry outside of your own race. You didn't marry outside of your religion. It was considered deviant behavior and in many places illegal. Were those people correct in their thinking? Should those behaviors still be considered deviant?

It is deviant not because it is outside of societal norms. It is deviant because it is outside of the natural law of attraction and procreation between two of opposite sex. Now you will tell me that there are examples in nature of attraction between the same sexes. But that is still the exception! So it is still deviant IMO.

I think you should step outside of your own sphere here and look at things from their perspective. They do not have equal rights and for them, it is a fight to get it. You say you want them to have those equal rights but you don't want them to glamourize this "deviant" behavior. How should they go about getting equal rights? By doing the don't ask don't tell policy? Once again you are saying that they are different and by being different they should be treated seperately.

Where did I say that? Infact the premise of my post is that they should not be treated separately!!! BUT, their behaviour is geared towards attracting maximum attention to their sexual orientation at each and every given oportunity, thus demanding separation.

The heterosexual culture is celebrated every day in books, magazines, TV, movies, billboards you name it. If you believe in equal rights, why can't homosexuals have the same?

Yes maybe the heterosexual culture is celebrated everywhere. But does equal rights mean that GAY culture needs to be celebrated equally? That does not make sense to me! IMO, sexuality is a very personal thing and practised and celebrated privately. I do not agree with putting forth gay lifestyle as an equally attractive alternate.

For me, in all things important, it does not matter if you are gay or heterosexual. But if you are going to harp on your gayness, then YOU make it an issue, not me!
That is just my opinion. You do not have to agree with it!

I agree that there needs to be an awareness created that such alternate sexual preference does exist and it is not grounds for being treated inequally. But I still have a problem when it is glamourised as it is done in the media. There must be some other way of achieving those goals.

[newmattick]

I agree that there needs to be an awareness created that such alternate sexual preference does exist and it is not grounds for being treated inequally.

how exactly is this suppose tobe done...since anytime homosexuality is presented as normal...you would probably call it glamorizing?

[Emaline]

I talked about [b]two consenting adults That by definition excludes pedophilia! It is a deviant sexual behaviour so I compared it. As I said I know that it is not really the same thing beyond that.

I'm trying to figure out why you felt the need to compare homosexuality to pedophilia. You made a choice when you made this post to compare the two. There are many other different kinds of deviant behavior but you choose pedophilia. Why?

It is deviant not because it is outside of societal norms.

Well when I look up deviant on dictionary.com that is the definition of deviant....

It is deviant because it is outside of the natural law of attraction and procreation between two of opposite sex. Now you will tell me that there are examples in nature of attraction between the same sexes. But that is still the exception! So it is still deviant IMO.

Exception according to who? You? So you are setting the standard of what you consider to be normal and their behavior is the exception to the rule, or outside of the rule, so deviant. Hence my definition most certainly does apply.

Where did I say that? Infact the premise of my post is that they should not be treated separately!!! BUT, their behaviour is geared towards attracting maximum attention to their sexual orientation at each and every given oportunity, thus demanding separation.

You say many things but you do not back them up, as a matter of fact you put them down. You agree that the heterosexual culture is celebrated everywhere but you don't think that the gay culture should also be celebrated. So they can have the same rights as you and I, but they are not allowed to celebrate them. Huh. Pretty much sounds like you want to treat them differently.You say you do not want it put forth as an attractive alternative. It is not an alternative. It is not like you are going out to dinner and they are out of the lobster but they offer you the crab instead. It is who they are.

Yes maybe the heterosexual culture is celebrated everywhere. But does equal rights mean that GAY culture needs to be celebrated equally? That does not make sense to me! IMO, sexuality is a very personal thing and practised and celebrated privately. I do not agree with putting forth gay lifestyle as an equally attractive alternate.

Why shouldn't they? If you agree that the heterosexual culture is celebrated daily, and you want equal rights for homosexuals, then why can't they celebrate what they are?

Every time I go to the mall I have to see heterosexual couples playing tonsil hockey. Every time I turn on the TV I have to see some perfume ad with heterosexual couples rolling around in the sand. Please show me where in the world heterosexuals are practicing quietly and discreetly?

That is just my opinion. You do not have to agree with it!

I know. I'm just debating it

I agree that there needs to be an awareness created that such alternate sexual preference does exist and it is not grounds for being treated inequally. But I still have a problem when it is glamourised as it is done in the media. There must be some other way of achieving those goals.

Plus do not blame the gay community for what the media does. That is not their fault. That is the media's problem. Not all homosexuals live the life of Will and Grace or Sex in the City.

[Kadydid]

Wil and Grace is the Mary Tyler Moore of the present. (and people wanted her sluty singleass to go away too )I believe that gays at this time are in a civil rights battle, just as the women in the 70’s were for equality. And I do not think they should go slink off and be quiet, because the longer that they are quite about it, the longer it will take them to have the same freedoms as any other couple.

I think it is more mainstream than people would like to admit.

[FaleshandAsalee]

lol this is just funny to me! I would wear a Gay Pride shirt like I would would wear an American shirt...both I think should be something to be proud of not ashamed of!

[neubie]

I'm trying to figure out why you felt the need to compare homosexuality to pedophilia

DO not pick at straws. I compared them as both are outside of the normal sexual beahviour in my opinion. As I said, it may be a extreme comparison.

Exception according to who? You? So you are setting the standard of what you consider to be normal

Not an exception ccording to me!! That is just a fact! Are you trying to tell me that it is completley normal? not an aberration? GMFB

You agree that the heterosexual culture is celebrated everywhere but you don't think that the gay culture should also be celebrated. So they can have the same rights as you and I, but they are not allowed to celebrate them. Huh. Pretty much sounds like you want to treat them differently.

Yes, How does celebrating gay "culture" if you can call it that lead to equal rights? Infact pushing the gay agend all the time just leads to more resentment and generates fear that such a behaviour will become more acceptable and not an exception!

Plus do not blame the gay community for what the media does. That is not their fault. That is the media's problem. Not all homosexuals live the life of Will and Grace or Sex in the City.

Obviously the gay community within the media has a lot to do with it.

And once again, the point being, why harp on the different sexual orientation all the time? Why make everything about it? There is much much more to a human being than his/her sexual preference.

[snickers]

There is much much more to a human being than his/her sexual preference.

Tell that to most heterosexuals.

[kwright]

If you're Nuetral, then I am a staunch cristian right wing neo-con. Pulease... .

[neubie]

I did say that I had no use for the gay movement as it is now or in the media!

[Emaline]

DO not pick at straws. I compared them as both are outside of the normal sexual beahviour in my opinion. As I said, it may be a extreme comparison.

I'm not picking at straws. YOU posted it in your original post on this topic. YOU wrote it in the context of your debate. If YOU did not wish it to be discussed or debated then YOU should not have put it in. The fact that you think it may be extreme says it all.

Not an exception ccording to me!! That is just a fact! Are you trying to tell me that it is completley normal? not an aberration? GMFB

Yes I'm saying homosexuality is normal.

Yes, How does celebrating gay "culture" if you can call it that lead to equal rights? Infact pushing the gay agend all the time just leads to more resentment and generates fear that such a behaviour will become more acceptable and not an exception!

Gay agenda?? WTF? Pray tell, what is the gay agenda?

Why should they not celebrate who they are? You are refusing to answer the question. You accept that it is fine and dandy for heterosexual couples to do it. But for homosexual couples to do it, it is pushing the agenda and wrong. I think celebrating who they are can lead to equal rights because they are showing that they are equal. If they can do the same things that heterosexual couples can do, then they are just as equal. I think telling them to hide in the closet and never show who they are does nothing but create fear and hate.

Obviously the gay community within the media has a lot to do with it.

Oh of course

And once again, the point being, why harp on the different sexual orientation all the time? Why make everything about it? There is much much more to a human being than his/her sexual preference.

Once again, why is it acceptable for heterosexual couples to flaunt their sexuality in everyones faces all the time but no homosexuals? Of course there is much more being human then your sexual preference but obviously as humans we love our sexuality. You see heterosexuality all the time, everywhere, and accept it as normal. When homosexuals do it, you think it is pushing some agenda and why can't they keep that crap at home and stop throwing it in your face.

If you truly believe that they should have the same rights as you and I, then why do you think they should not do the same things as heterosexuals do?

[kwright]

Originally Posted by neubie I did say that I had no use for the gay movement as it is now or in the media!

There isn't any 'MOVEMENT'. as soon as you say such a thing it shows what a bigot you truly are.