I'm posting this on a "family" forum in hopes of advice, stories of encouragement from "similar" experiences or an honest opinion.

The story starts over 4 years ago when my then husband of five years left me and two kids and moved in with another woman he "knew". Child support was sporadic..bounced..late...and I had to get on a state program to provide childcare expenses so I could work. Well, when he became so delinquent the state stepped in and I guess threatened him, well, he called wanting to terminate his rights. I agreed...I mean what life would it be for a kid to constantly see a mother taking their father to court for the things he was supposed to do as a parent? I was somewhat scared about the whole ordeal, but I was also freshly remarried when this happened so I had some support for the kids and their needs. Well, the ex consented to terminate his rights and he actually was a co-petitioner to allow my husband to adopt the kids. My ex and I talked on the phone the night he called wanting to terminate his rights. He said "I'd like to see the kids some" and I said "It's not my intention to take them away from you". I did not know that the former "stepmother" would come into play after the adoption. It was my belief from speaking to my ex that HE wanted to see the kids and understood that stepparents have no rights and once he signed the adoption agreement they were no longer "connected" legally to the kids in anyway. Roughly one month after the adoption I was beginning to wonder if the ex was going to call or make an attempt to see the kids. He didn't....but his wife did. Everything was in her handwriting with his sig. at the very bottom of the page. I gave it another try and said that the birthfather could contact me...no one else. Boy did that start something! I finally just pulled away from everyone and went into hiding with my kids...basically withdrawn from EVERYONE. It was not the plan, but the kids had been through so much and then they wanted more "drama" around them....I wasn't going to allow it. There had been enough drama.
The birthfather NEVER contacted me on his own....so I assumed since my number and address had not changed he was not "wanting" to see the kids as he knew the rules. Well....all that was fine until 3 years later when my son asked about him. He remembered him somewhat and it tore me up to have him "wonder"....so I contacted the birthfather and told him that me and their father had talked it over and that if we can agree on certain things we would like for the kids to be able to see you and know you. Once again I had to reiterate that his wife needed to stay elsewhere (which caused a commotion...but oh well). He did agree to come...and come on his own. We had a nice sit down dinner and everyone seemed fine and happy and got along great.

THEN it all hits the fan. Immediately after that visit I email him with some more guidelines for the basis of visits in the future because we had vaguely touched on things, but I wanted to make sure there were no questions as far as "long standing" goals. Well, he immediately blew up and wanted his wife to come along, wanted to be called daddy, wanted us to travel to him, and said he would not comply with our rules because we were trying to make him "dance".

They even got mad because I sent a book of artwork to the grandparents and not to them....that confused me.

Here I am...taking care of these kids ALWAYS and I'm being told how to parent by someone who runs off on a whim, didn't pay child support on time (backowed to state for almost 8 mos), and expects me to allow someone who has no rights to the kids (and AIDED in breaking up their home) to come into the picture. Does he not understand that he has no right to ask for these things?

I got hateful in the end...really hateful. I'm upset, confused...everything. His wife says she'll never give up on the kids because "they're mine" and that stepparents have rights! (even though she hasn't been a stepparent since the adoption and she was ONLY a stepparent for around 2 mos).

I'm torn...the birthfather is more worried about being addressed as "daddy", allowed to bring his wife (whom I think doesn't belong in the circle), and worried that we are "making him dance" and that he "deserves" to see the kids.

I'm lost. Anyone else been through something like this? I'm getting smeared as the nasty witch and all I've ever done is take care of my family and kids when everyone else just decided not to and left.

It hurts to be treated this way and it hurts that a birthfather would think it more important to make the rules and not see his kids than to abide by them and see them.

He had a welcome invite to become "part of our extended family" and have a "relationship with the kids" and he says it is not good enough....I'm in tears here and need some feedback, help, smack in the face...something.

Thanks for listening.

Hi Dixie, I am sorry for all you have gone through. I think you need to stick to your guns though. *He* is the one who chose to leave, *He* is the one who chose to give up his rights. Once he chose to give up his rights he tore up his parent card as far as I'm concerned and certainly his *honey* had no rights to begin with, especially because she is likely the one who suggested he give up his rights in the first place.

Anyway, I would allow *him* to call, write or come see the kids I would also allow the kids to write or call him *if* they ask or chose to do so. When he complains about the terms remind him of his choices and that *he* is the one who decided not to be a dad.

My mother was married before she met my dad. She had one child with her former husband (my older sister). They divorced before my sister was born. He abused my mother and threatened her life so she left. He also did not pay child support. He saw my sister for the first time when she was 3 months old. After that he did not see her again until she was a teenager. Back then, if you did not pay support you were not allowed visitation. My mother, however, had told him he could come to her house to see my sister anytime he wanted. He, however, chose not to do that.

So, I think you are doing the right thing. Do not bad mouth him to the kids, but let them know that their bio-dad can come to see them if he chooses or call or write.

I am glad you are keeping in contact with their grandparents. It is not their fault their son is such an asshat. Good luck to you.

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Asexuality: It's not just for amoebas anymore

"As long as two people love each other I don't think God cares whether they both have a hoo hoo or a haa haa" Marge Simpson

Dixie, you ex and his current wife have absolutely NO rights to see your kids. I wouldn't feel bad about it either- you get to make all the rules, and he can either follow those rules to the letter, or he just won't see the kids at all. He gave up his right to have absolutely any say. His current wife is totally out of her freaking mind thinking that SHE has ANY right to your kids. A judge would laugh in their faces if they brought this matter to court.

Stick to your guns. You have to do what is best for you and your children, and your family. And YOU get total say in what is best for them.

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Was I possibly too harsh when I "outlined" how I felt things were going to go? Here is the email that made him so mad. Please let me know what all you think.

****,
I am trying to talk them into writing or at least drawing a picture. I'm hoping as soon as the "new" wears off the toys they will be more than willing to do this. I did take some pics for you...some digital that I'm trying to have (***my brother) email me (took them with his digital) but for some reason my ISP isn't wanting to send attachments. Gotta love the land of dial up and so-so ISP's. I'm sure they'll come through eventually. He has tried twice. I did take snap shots and hope to get them processed one day this week. I will get doubles and send the good ones to you. I have another email made up that I've been trying to go through to make sure it goes through some stuff and lays some ground rules down for everyone without making anyone mad...which is what I'm afraid it will do. **** and I have had some nice chats and have been finding the "middle ground" it seems. I think we can work something out very soon if things go well. You don't have to ask to call...just call. We are normally home weeknights by 6 or 6:30 p.m. unless we stay for Family Night reading at school which is on Tuesdays. The kids are out of school until next Tuesday so our schedule may change a bit, but normally we are home by 6 to start dinner no matter what day it is.

Let me just copy and paste what I've typed previously....and you can reply with your thoughts on it..I'll post it in green. I would like for you to get back with me ASAP on this please. Thanks.

****,
The meeting you had with the kids the other Sunday went well in my mind. I know you were nervous, but things will calm down. I sent you an email hoping for some feedback as to how you viewed the visit. I still hope to hear from you at some point. (My husband***) is also eager to know how you felt. Amazingly (yes...amazingly) I have had a few very nice chats with *** (his wife). We have a lot in common, but still bump heads from time to time. If things keep going smoothly I think we can all come to some kind of arrangement in the near future.

That being said there are some things I would like to address. I know you want to walk right into their lives and feel completely comfortable...that is going to take some time. One thing about the "uncomfortable" issue is that you don't know what kind of role you have in their lives. My main concern is for the kids to KNOW you and KNOW that you are their birthfather and someone that they can have a relationship with, call when they need your advice, spend time with you when they want, etc...it will take a while to get there, but we can get there somehow. I know that it is very important for you and Lisa to feel "parental", but "parental" isn't necessarily needed. The kids have two parents that make the decisions parents make. It would confuse them to no end to have to "reprogram" their little minds for "parents" again. Don't freak out. They will know you are their "first daddy" aka "birthfather"...that is how we talk of you, but when it comes to parental decisions and stuff...well, that would be me and *****. *****(hubby) and I discussed this and we think possibly the healthiest way is to represent you like extended family (though they will know how you fit in) and just let it grow from there. I'm not trying to give you a smaller part to play or anything like that...just saying that the kids are secure in their parents and the rules we have as their parents...we don't need to undo these things.
That being said, they are to respect you fully, mind you when in your supervision (even if hubby and I are there, they should respect you and mind you), and hopefully come to see you as part of our family.
I've not told ***(my son) how to address you, though he seems comfortable with "****" and I think it works. I've never told him what to call anyone, but he chose to call the hubby "Dad" and I certainly think he has earned that title. The next few lines might be a touchy subject, but where ****(daughter) is concerned things will be touchy I am afraid. She takes to anyone...anywhere, at anytime. She is just like that. First off, she is a girl...not a baby or toddler and is expected to behave as one. "lap sitting, baby talk, etc" is banned...when a kid makes your leg fall asleep she is just too big to be on anyone's lap. Now for picture taking and stuff....well ya know...rules bend. If at anytime she pulls the "babytalk" or "baby actions" with you just say "use a big girl voice" and she'll snap out. Be prepared...she will test you. She has learned how to manipulate people (gee...wonder where she got that...haha) and she must learn to rely on something besides her smile and cuteness. Two years of school have taught me that I have to stop this behavior because even the teachers have had problems with it. We've made TONS of improvement and she's done much better lately and Ms. ******* is very proud of her. Anyway...I know this may be hard to understand, but forewarning you can only help things in the long run. Her seizures and near death episode (that sounds so strange to type) made no difference as she has matured...she is very smart and at the top of her class. All cat scans and MRI's were normal when last repeated and no long term affects should be encountered...they are amazed she hasn't had any to date actually...but anyway...that's in the past. Anyway..to sum her up remember how long it took her to walk and we thought something was wrong with her legs and went through ALL those tests and the doctors finally said "she's just lazy"...yeah...if she can find a way around things she will... WHEN it does come to ***daughter and **** (his wife) getting together there are a few guidelines. ***(Daughter) is undoubtedly going to take up with her immediately...so that should not be a problem. For sanity's sake and for the sake of everything that is going to build as time goes on I ask that she not be allowed to make any "motherly" names. I'll go along with "Aunt, Auntie, Sweetheart, sugarfoot"...heck anything besides a Mom or Mommy/Mother affixed with her name. Let's not confuse the kids anymore than we have to. I am her mother and the final authority on anything having to do with either child. Combined 40+ hours of labor entitle me to this privilege. That being said, I feel that **** (his wife) and I have patted out the guidelines of what we can do WITH each other to help her benefit from both of us. Yes, it will require me to do girlie things and it will require ***(his wife) to do some "not so girlie" things...I feel that we'll be okay when we get there.

To sum it up, we are allowing you to become part of our family...which is a huge thing. **** (hubby) is being very good about all of this and is willing at a later date to do some visits down your way to save driving time....course it's heck on kids to drag them that far and still "have fun"...but we'll try it. I'm sure there will be a few more visits up this way or in Crossville before we go too far, but we have discussed this and he is open minded about these things. As far as the kids staying with you guys...well, that will just have to wait for a while. I'm sure there will come a time when we will all feel okay with this...and it will happen then and not a moment before. I'm sure you have guessed that you will be invited to a lot of family functions in years to come as this grows....yes...family functions. You will be considered extended family after a while and therefore will get the invite. My parents are up to date on everything...so do not freak out there. You are liable to run across various members of my family at certain times in order to see plays, school functions, sports, etc. They have no control over who sees my kids or who can or cannot come to the kids functions....they know this and know that you are coming back into the picture. They'll deal with it...that's my key words for everyone...deal with it. When it comes to our family **** (hubby) runs the show and everyone else goes through him...even my family. He doesn't talk much at first, but when he does talk it normally pays to listen. When he gets to know you better...he'll talk you to death. Just wait on that one...you'll see.

I hope this better clarifies things and you can see where we stand on some items. I would like a return email on this and please, don't try to barter on certain things...it would truly hurt my feelings after offering so much. You are getting a very open invite to have a place in the lives of two kids. Yes, it will require a lot of road time and a lot of effort. Small price to pay if you ask me. Sometimes bending *** (hubby) and my life to meet certain "expectations" will be difficult. Don't take it as a "we aren't willing" but rather take it as a sign that our lives are so busy being a family and parents that our schedule is too tight to alter at times.

Dixie I think all that sounds fine. You are being more generous and kinder than I would be, but I am a bit of a biatch

Seriously though, if you guys are able to find middle ground and they can handle that you are the final authority then it will be good for the kids and that is all that matters.

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Asexuality: It's not just for amoebas anymore

"As long as two people love each other I don't think God cares whether they both have a hoo hoo or a haa haa" Marge Simpson

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I gave him 4 *basic* rules and told him when he could acknowledge those rules that he could call us.

He replied that he isn't "kissing butt" so I doubt he will call.

My fear is that if he cannot grasp the concept that he is no longer a father the rest of this is never going to work. He has to respect our family unit and be willing to introduced into it and not the other way around.

I'm going to stick to my guns. I was plain, up front, and hard nosed with the rules...the rest is up to him. Here are the rules:

1) You have to follow rules established by guardians because it is a prerequisite to see the children.
2) You will not be referred to as "daddy" but as "Greg".
3) You will not have any control over when/where/how you visit the kids...this is decided by the parents.
4) You will recognize that you have no parental rights and therefore will not send long emails or instant messages concerning what you believe you"deserve".

These are the rules. When you feel you can follow them please contact us. We will not be contacting you, it is not our position to do so. We understand the rules and legalities. Your email and IM properties are being blocked therefore telephone contact is the only way for you to agree with this.

There will be no compromising by the legal parents.


Perhaps I should have just stated these in the beginning...it might have given him less room to feel that he could "barter" with me.

Seems pretty simple to me. If his goal is to get to know the kids and have a relationship with them he will follow through. If not I guess you won't hear from him.

The sad thing is I doubt he accepts that *he* is the one who put himself in this position, not you and not your dh.

Again, good luck to you and happy new year

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Asexuality: It's not just for amoebas anymore

"As long as two people love each other I don't think God cares whether they both have a hoo hoo or a haa haa" Marge Simpson

ITA with Geela, you've done more than your fair share in allowing him into your children's lives. Certainly more than he deserves after signing off his children so he wouldn't have to contribute any money to their upbringing. Your Dh sounds pretty amazing too and a very good father. Glad to hear you're sticking to your guns and I hope it works out. If not, then at least you know you tried and the failure is on his part.

Dixiegal,

I am glad that you changed your mind and decided to let your ex's wife into your children's lives. Neither of them have any legal rights to the children, of course. But if you are going to allow your ex to see the kids then his wife must be included for this to work. For the sake of your children you need to swallow your pride and try and get along. This is a different situation because he did terminate his rights and your husband adopted the kids. However, had that not happened your ex would have as much a right to include his wife in the access to the kids as your right to include your husband in their lives. Sometimes anger and hurt feeling cloud our vision. I am glad that you are softening when it comes to this.

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