http://abcnews.go.com/sections/polit...Noted_Now.html

"KERRY TO TAKE DOWN McCAIN AD: "We respect John McCain's wishes, and will stop running the ads of him challenging Bush to denounce the attacks on his service. It's long past time that George Bush also take John McCain's advice and do the right thing by putting an end to the smears and lies attacking John Kerry's military service. George Bush needs to say this is wrong, he needs to say it must end," said Kerry spokesperson David Wade. "

Ok, first of all, wasn't it , eh, rude of them to do that in the first place? This isn't moveon.org, this is the Kerry campaign that ran the ad. News to Kerry: McCain didn't want to be your VP and apparently did not want to be used as noted here . Also, how should George Bush put an end to "smears" attacking Kerry's service? If I'm not mistaken, Bush has publicly ads questioning Kerry's military service. The Swift Boat group doesn't report to Bush. Does the Kerry campaign prefer Bush sign an executive order demanding just the Swift Boat Vets stop running ads? Question to the Kerry Campaign...what about all of the other groups, including moveon.org questioning Bush's military service? What about the ad comparing Bush to Hitler? Was it denounced by Kerry? Of course, we already know, it's "different"

"KERRY CHALLENGES BUSH TO WEEKLY DEBATES: In Anoka, MN, John Kerry challenged President Bush to weekly debates on the issues."

"BUSH CAMP REAX: "There will be a time for debates after the convention, and during the next few weeks, John Kerry should take the time to finish the debates with himself. This election presents a clear choice to the American people between a President who is moving America forward and a Senator who has taken every side of almost every issue and has the most out of the mainstream record in the U.S. Senate," said BC'04 spokesman Steve Schmidt. "

I have to say, I couldn't have responded better, esp the portion about Kerry needing to finish the debates with himself. Loves it!!!!

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DING DONG THE BIATCH IS DEAD!!!

Popping in here again...don't throw things...

Kerry did denounce the moveon.org ad comparing Bush to Hitler in June.
[link]http://www.gopusa.com/news/2004/june/0628_bush_ad_hitler.shtml[/link]

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Kate

Steve's Wife (8/13/94) ~ Mommy to Samuel (5/27/02) and Myles (11/20/07)
and my angels Alex (5/11/05 @ 35 weeks) and Travis (5/8/06 @ 20 weeks)

oops...sorry bout the code mixup...

Try this...
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2004/june...d_hitler.shtml

That was a great response!

I'm just so sick of libs telling people what needs to be said, what should not to be talked about, what books should not be sold, what ads can be run - UGH!

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Kate,

Kerry was denouncing Bush using the moveon.org's Hitler commercial in an ad. He used snippets of the commercial comparing him to Hitler.

"A new campaign ad released by the Bush reelection campaign on its web site on Thursday which features political attacks comparing the president to Adolf Hitler made by supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John F. Kerry has been denounced by the Kerry campaign as "disgusting," "bizarre," and "outrageous."

In a message to supporters, the Kerry campaign encouraged them to visit the reelection campaign web site for President George W. Bush to view this 77-second campaign ad.

"It isn't often that we'd ask you to go to George W. Bush's campaign web site," the Kerry campaign wrote to supporters. "But every single American should go to georgewbush.com immediately and watch the disgusting ad the Bush/Cheney campaign has featured on the front page."

Kerry wasn't pissed about the ad comparing Bush to Hitler that was actually put out in January (which wasn't denounced), he was pissed that Bush was letting people know that this 527 group is tied to Kerry and the kind of people that are behind moveon.org. If Kerry was going to denounce the moveon.org ad itself, wouldn't he have denounced it earlier than June?

"We've always said the Bush campaign would do anything to win, but even we are shocked that they've sunk this low," the Kerry campaign continued in its e-mail to supporters. "It's bizarre. It's outrageous. And we're not going to stand for it."

The Kerry campaign has called for Bush to "remove this hateful ad from his website immediately" and has started a petition on the Kerry web site.

"Take action today and sign our petition to Bush demanding that he repudiate this disgusting ad putting Hitler alongside Democrats and remove it from his web site," the Kerry campaign expressed."


The new low is Bush showing people what kind of ads are running against him (no different than Kerry's doing against Swift Boat Vets now) ? That's the real low? Not actually comparing Bush to Hitler and putting words in his mouth?

Explain to me again how Republicans are supposed to be wearing "blinders"?

Hey, but thanks for trying

My mistake. But Hannity and Colmes said Kerry HAD denounced the original ad...now I can't find any other reference to that.

What happened to the original ad anyway? As I remember, the ad was a part of a contest. Did it ever actually air? I know it didn't win the contest...but I don't know much else about it.

Oh...and "thanks for trying"? I'm not trying anything. I just thought I had something to offer the conversation. And I never said Republicans are wearing blinders. Please don't be so hostile.

I think a good test for a "denounce" is wheter the candidate continues to repeat the very lines he denounces.

Kerry has repeatedly brought up Bush's service himself.. even most recently saying lets debat it "BRING IT ON"?? Doesn't sound liek he is really denouncing it.

He has also "denounced" the personal attacks but will himself in the same speech call Bush a LIAR 5 times. He is referring to the Iraq WMD debate which Kerry has said himself he believed they had.. .funny how he decides in some speeches to forget that little fact..

Probably confusing since he was for it and against it then would have gone regardless etc...
Who knows what he stands for? he doesnt' so I sure don't how would any voter.. isn't it frigtening to vote for someone who won't say what they believe and when they do say something they contradict themselves in the same speech (high road)

Note: Bush has never said anything about Kerry's service record except positive stuff. Bush has no control of 527 and Kerry should not however Kerry and his wife are going to a fund raiser in FL for Move on .org.. pretty sure this is a violation but you know... .dobule standard as usual.

Kate,

I'm sorry if my tone seemed hostile , esp towards you since out of all the liberals on this board, you usually take the higher road and seem much more open minded. Let me explain my tone now, . Maybe a few of the girls here feel the same way, maybe they don't but quite often, when somebody posts something that's unfavorable to Kerry, somebody pops in like some messenger of truth (not talking about posting Snopes links) on the thread. I can't tell you how many times I've seen liberals on this board go on and on about "blinders, blinkers, both sides of a political coin, blah blah blah" but then refuse to accept that there are people who may be a part of the "anybody but kerry crowd". I haven't seen you say it, but this issue with the 527 business, esp with the Swift Boat Vets against Kerry ruffles my feathers more than anything other controversy so far. Kerry didn't denounce the ads that compared Bush to Hitler. They were internet ads, but the media also ran stories on it. It wasn't like this was some underground thing, many people were aware of it. The Kerry camp has questioned Bush's service in the guard. Not just moveon.org or Michael Moore, but the Kerry campaign. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in615317.shtml

"The Kerry campaign thinks it has a winner with this issue. Kerry himself broke his silence last week and said, "I think a lot of veterans are going to be very angry at a president who can't account for his own service in the National Guard." And the Kerry camp sent out a press release entitled "KEY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Bush's Record In The National Guard." As spokesman Chad Clanton said, "Voters are going to have to decide: someone who volunteered to service their country when their country needed them or someone else who, you know, it speaks for itself. It is a contrast, it is a difference. … There is no better test than whether someone is committed to defending their country than whether they've put their life on the line on the battlefield."

I'm sorry, but for Kerry to go around demanding an end to anybody questioning his service and demanding Bush denounce it smacks of total hypocrisy when he personally questioned Bush's service.

On this issue of the lawyer that stepped down , check out this piece. There is a clear double standard. Do as I say not as I do.

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DING DONG THE BIATCH IS DEAD!!!

See, I'm of the opinion that there are valid points on both sides...that's why I visit this board to see if I can learn a thing or two about the "other side." I have my own reasons for not liking GWB...but that doesn't mean people who disagree with me have blinders or blinkers on. Yes, I think there are some that have a blind devotion to a particular candidate (on both sides)...and that doesn't sit right with me. I'm more of a free-thinker, I guess.

On more concrete issues...You're right on one level. Kerry shouldn't call for an end to something that he continues to stir up. But...I think service records ought to be fair game for everybody. All service records should be made public. That would end the debate and allow people to interpret the actions of both the candidates without the filter of time and collective memory. I think the President should show his service records. I think Kerry should show his service records. Enough of the "I saw" and "I remember" crap.

And I personally don't think lies should be allowed in political campaigns. I mean, if it's wrong, then you're deliberately misleading the voting public. Here again, however, you get into personal responsibility to inquire about the messages and the candidates...which most people don't do. So do we let all the liars air their opinions and just let the public decide which they want to believe, to he!! with the truth?

And on a more vague note...I personally think there is a difference between outright lying about someone and using poor taste to compare someone to Hitler. They are both wrong, in my book, but the lies bother me a bit more. I mean, I can look at a Hitler comparison and say, "that's insane." But if I look at an ad that tells an outright lie about someone...how will I know it's a lie? Particularly if the person telling the lie says he "saw it." I don't like the idea that I have to rely on the news media to uncover the truth about things people say about the candidates.

I do agree that ANY comparison to Hitler should NOT be used. But that's more of a personal taste issue than a truth issue. Something called common decency...which both men have seem to have misplaced recently. I also don't agree that images of unwilling people should be used in campaign ads (the Olympic one and the 9/11 one come to mind immediately...I'm sure there are some on the Kerry campaign as well).

And I'm not sure how I feel about this call to denounce. It's just silly and distracting from the real issues of the campaign. Who gives a fig whether Kerry or Bush say "bad advertisers?" What are they going to do to help my life in the future? How are they going to be as President?

I am quickly changing my mind on 527's. At first I thought, "what's the harm?" But now I see how people sneak around making contributions and telling lies and making outrageous claims. We have effectively allowed the campaign process to be sold to the highest bidder...whether he's telling the truth or not. And to say the candidates have no control over 527's...please. You and I both know they both have direct ties to these groups through the good ole boy network. To deny it and say otherwise is just living in your own little dream world.

And as for the lawyer resigning. He should've known better. A lawyer is supposed to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. And he was not a "former" employee when he helped the Swift Boat Veterans. What bothers me is that the President and VP were running around TV saying that nobody on their campaign had anything to do with Swift Boat Vets...when in fact that wasn't true.

Kerry and his wife are going to a fundraiser for moveon.org? I had heard some reference to this but haven't checked into it? Is this accurate? Or is this something that you just heard in passing somewhere like I did?

The WMD debate bugs me because I read an article that said that Kerry and Edwards and the Pres. didn't actually read the 90 page report before voting and taking action. If they had read it, they would have known what we know today. This doesn't sit well with me for either candidate. I'm hoping to he!! that they BOTH learned their lesson.

Is Kerry a hypocrite? On some issues...sure. But nobody can convince me that GWB doesn't have the same problems. Quite honestly, the whole service debate makes me sick to my stomach. As the granddaughter of a marine who served in WWII and Korea, I am embarassed that service men would behave in such a manner. "You weren't hurt bad enough." "You weren't really in danger." "You lied to get awards." "You were AWOL." These statements go against everything the US military stands for and these men are bringing dishonor to the uniform. But that's a whole other soapbox.

__________________

Kate

Steve's Wife (8/13/94) ~ Mommy to Samuel (5/27/02) and Myles (11/20/07)
and my angels Alex (5/11/05 @ 35 weeks) and Travis (5/8/06 @ 20 weeks)

Kate, I agree with you on some points, but what bothers me about the 527's isn't the fact that they're out there or what they do, it's the double standard. Kerry hasn't as far as *I* know, denounced and called for an end to the 527's. He just wants the one criticizing him to stop. I'm sorry, but that just plain stinks. I take more of an issue with how they're funded and how politics have gotten dirtier after the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform. There's an issue of free speech too. I think if they're going to end this loophole, it needs to be uniform, don't just get rid of the ones that hurt one candidate's feelings.

If lies weren't involved in a political campaign, there would be no political campaign . First of all, we have to figure out for sure who is lying. If every one of these Swift Boat Vets are lying, Kerry should go the appropriate route and sue them. After the war, Kerry admitted to some of the atrocities he accused his fellow veterans of committing, and later said his comments were "over the top". Which is it? Why did he lie about them?

On the issue of outright lying and bad taste, first you have to prove that this group is just plain outright lying. Both sides, Kerry and the vets have had holes punched in their statements. You seem to be assuming that Kerry is telling 100% truth and the vets are 100% lying. You can't look at any ad and tell if somebody is outright lying, you're right, but can you listen to all of Kerry's recollections and assume that there is no way he is lying? On the same note, maybe somebody out there uninformed sees the Bush/Hitler ad and believes Bush and Hitler want the same things? What about the ads in 2000 stating "if you vote for Bush another black church will burn"? I think in the end, if these groups are allowed to run these ads because of the loopholes, the public should be trusted to make their own decisions.

About the lawyer, he absolutely did the right thing by stepping down. From what I've read, it's illegal if they coordinate activities between the groups they represent, which there has been nothing on. A lawyer that represents the DNC says there is nothing wrong with dual roles.

"Joe Sandler, a lawyer for the DNC and a group running anti-Bush ads, MoveOn.org, said there is nothing wrong with serving in both roles at once."

It's true that Theresa Heinz Kerry has attended a party for moveon.org. It wasn't mentioned in passing, it's on the official Kerry-Edwards blog , with a picture.

You're right, the whole service debate is getting old. I was dissapointed that Kerry , after saying in '92 the issue of who served shouldn't even be a big deal, has made his service the centerpiece for election. It seems acceptable for Kerry's campaign to revolve around his service, but unacceptable for the many vets who still don't appreciate the things Kerry accused them of doing. I haven't heard Bush question Kerry's medals but John Kerry has personally brought up his military record and questioned Bush's.

You're right about the public records. If they want to put an end to it, they should agree to release all available records, but that's not likely.

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DING DONG THE BIATCH IS DEAD!!!