Latch issues...

JennyLynne · #1 (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 07:44 PM

Hi Ladies!

New here, with a few questions I'm hoping you can help me with!

A bit on my breastfeeding history... I nursed my first son Bodhi for 2 years, with no real issues - he latched great, and the only problem we ever had was a short lived bout of thrush.

I am hoping to go as long this time with Jett, but we are having a few issues that I never had with my first. When Jett was born, he had some breathing difficulties and was sent to the NICU for oxygen & to have his lungs cleared of fluid. I didn't even get to see him until after 2pm, which was 6+ hours after he was born. Because of this, we didn't get to nurse until well after then, not right after birth as I had hoped. Also, he was given a bottle of formula in the NICU because his blood sugar levels had dropped.

So, upon nursing when he finally got to come to my room, latch seemed good (to me and the post-partum nurses) but he would nurse for a max of 2 minutes and fall asleep. I figured it was from anesthesia and the pain meds I was on as I had a c-section. He was also 3 weeks early and was getting tired easily. So, I spent alot of time trying to keep him awake to nurse.

Fast forward to day 3. A LC came in to my room to see me before I was discharged and checked to see how he was nursing. She said he was 'shallow' in his latch, and not taking in as much areola as he should be. She showed me how to latch him on properly to get more of the areola in his mouth, okay.. no problem.

Now...he has NEVER really opened his mouth very wide from the beginning.. don't know if he was just too small, or just lazy! So, I have a hard time getting him to open wide, and have to coerce his chin down to get him to open, which is a process. He totally fights it.

Once he gets latched on, he will 'pop' off frequently. I take him off and try to re-latch him on, but he is 'milk drunk' and doesn't want to even try to re-latch. He prefers to purse his lips and 'suck in' my nipple into his mouth, like a straw almost. Once he is back 'on', I will pull his chin down to try to get more areola in to his mouth, but it is short lived as he pops off again.

So... could there be a reason he 'pops' off so frequently, or is it just because he doesn't have enough of my breast in his mouth to suck?

Also, is there any way to teach him to open his mouth wider? I have been trying to tickle his top and/or bottom lip with my nipple to get him to open wider, but he just gets frustrated and pulls away, then manages to get his hands to his mouth and would rather suck on his fingers. I try holding his head so that he can't pull away, but he just does not want to open his mouth very wide!

He has a poopy diaper EVERY time it is time to change it, EVERY time. It has never just been 'wet' since he was born. Though, he is gaining weight, rather impressively, considering our breastfeeding issues. 6lb 1oz at birth, 5lb 12oz at 4 days; 7lb .5oz at 2 weeks and 7lb 6.5oz at 18 days.

We also just got over a bout of Mastitis, where I was on the evil antibiotic Keflex for 7 days, which has caused his tummy to be extremely gassy. I think his frequent poops (diarrhea) were partly caused by the abx, and has had a severe amount of discomfort & gas, so we have both been on probiotics now for a week to try to counteract the damage. It hasn't helped that much.

So, sorry if this was long-winded... I have tried to do everything I can to get this latch issue corrected, but am at my wits end. I won't quit nursing, but want to make the experience better for both of us, because it is quite frustrating at times! I don't know what I am doing wrong this time, because I had such success nursing my first son!!!

(On a side note - I don't ever give him a pacifier .. he had one at times while we were still in the hospital, but since being home, we don't use one at all)

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you can offer! I appreciate it!

mom2tig99Nroo03 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 01:14 PM

gosh your boys are just precious!!!

Originally Posted by JennyLynne

I am hoping to go as long this time with Jett, but we are having a few issues that I never had with my first. When Jett was born, he had some breathing difficulties and was sent to the NICU for oxygen & to have his lungs cleared of fluid. I didn't even get to see him until after 2pm, which was 6+ hours after he was born. Because of this, we didn't get to nurse until well after then, not right after birth as I had hoped. Also, he was given a bottle of formula in the NICU because his blood sugar levels had dropped.

i hate it when they do that. they do not need a bottle of aim OR sugar water to bring up blood sugar. they could have helped you pump out a teaspoon of colostrum and fed it to him via a sppon, cupfeeder, syringe etc. grrrr

Fast forward to day 3. A LC came in to my room to see me before I was discharged and checked to see how he was nursing. She said he was 'shallow' in his latch, and not taking in as much areola as he should be. She showed me how to latch him on properly to get more of the areola in his mouth, okay.. no problem.

Now...he has NEVER really opened his mouth very wide from the beginning.. don't know if he was just too small, or just lazy! So, I have a hard time getting him to open wide, and have to coerce his chin down to get him to open, which is a process. He totally fights it.

it is probably a combo of small and lazy. :giggle (he is aboy afterall

)

Once he gets latched on, he will 'pop' off frequently. I take him off and try to re-latch him on, but he is 'milk drunk' and doesn't want to even try to re-latch. He prefers to purse his lips and 'suck in' my nipple into his mouth, like a straw almost. Once he is back 'on', I will pull his chin down to try to get more areola in to his mouth, but it is short lived as he pops off again.

So... could there be a reason he 'pops' off so frequently, or is it just because he doesn't have enough of my breast in his mouth to suck?

how is his tongue? cna he stick it out past his bottom lip?

Also, is there any way to teach him to open his mouth wider? I have been trying to tickle his top and/or bottom lip with my nipple to get him to open wider, but he just gets frustrated and pulls away, then manages to get his hands to his mouth and would rather suck on his fingers. I try holding his head so that he can't pull away, but he just does not want to open his mouth very wide!

you're doing everythign right. i cna suggest that you open your mouth wide and say "open" while you're tickling his lips etc. many times a baby will try to imitate you. you could also try swaddling him to keep his hands away from his mouth (probably not that great of a suggestion if you live in a wamr climate too though)

He has a poopy diaper EVERY time it is time to change it, EVERY time. It has never just been 'wet' since he was born. Though, he is gaining weight, rather impressively, considering our breastfeeding issues. 6lb 1oz at birth, 5lb 12oz at 4 days; 7lb .5oz at 2 weeks and 7lb 6.5oz at 18 days.

We also just got over a bout of Mastitis, where I was on the evil antibiotic Keflex for 7 days, which has caused his tummy to be extremely gassy. I think his frequent poops (diarrhea) were partly caused by the abx, and has had a severe amount of discomfort & gas, so we have both been on probiotics now for a week to try to counteract the damage. It hasn't helped that much.

you already know too to watch for thrush also, if you were just on abx. what kind of probiotics are you using for him? you should have een at least some change after a week,maybe he could use a higher dosage? also i'd try bicycling his legs and tummy massage to help with the gas. some moms also feel that mylicon drop (or their equivalent) seem to help.

So, sorry if this was long-winded... I have tried to do everything I can to get this latch issue corrected, but am at my wits end. I won't quit nursing, but want to make the experience better for both of us, because it is quite frustrating at times! I don't know what I am doing wrong this time, because I had such success nursing my first son!!!

(On a side note - I don't ever give him a pacifier .. he had one at times while we were still in the hospital, but since being home, we don't use one at all)

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you can offer! I appreciate it!

each little one is different as far as nursing experiences go, but i can tell you there is a light at the end of the tunnel, his mouth will get bigger. i'd imagine he's having his 3 week growth spurt. usually by the 6 week one, baby's mouth has gotten a tad bit bigger, so this is at least some positive news fdor you even if he doens't like to open his mouth much. you can teach him though, just keep working with him and he'll get the hang of it. :hug

RandiRed · #3 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 03:17 PM

Your post could have been my post when my daughter was days/weeks old except we didnt have mastisis, she was tearing my nipples so bad that i though the pain fro her nursing was worse than unmedicated labor.

My advice, since there are plenty of poopy/wet diapers and the weight gain is there, is to just keep doing what you are doing. Ask the docs if he has tongue tie but it most likely isnt that. I just found that it all got better as her mouth grew bigger and I found a comfortable position to keep her in. DH used to have to wake up with me in the middle of the night and hold her arms down when i was getting her to latch. I would try to keep her awake, but the dunkedness was to powerful and i would just nurse on demand. Smetimes it would be every hour or so, but it did get better as she got bigger. I thought it was never going to end and i was going to have to pump and bottle feed.

I am hapy to hear that he isnt getting a paci. I just found that they get in the way. If they want to suck, they wantt o eat, especially at this stage. Plus, if you give the paci, their mouths get so tired from suckig that, that when it comes to feeding their mouths are too tired t do its job and its hard work to drink from mommy.

anyways, sorry for the long post, but mine is sleeping and this is like the only human contact i had all afternoon.

JennyLynne · #4 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by mom2tig99Nroo03

gosh your boys are just precious!!!

aww...thank you!

i hate it when they do that. they do not need a bottle of aim OR sugar water to bring up blood sugar. they could have helped you pump out a teaspoon of colostrum and fed it to him via a sppon, cupfeeder, syringe etc. grrrr

I KNOW... I was kind of ticked that they didn't give me the option of pumping, which I would have gladly done. They didn't even tell me they gave him formula until well after the fact. me=

it is probably a combo of small and lazy. :giggle (he is aboy afterall

)

ha haa.. ain't that the truth! Aren't most boys lazy!

how is his tongue? cna he stick it out past his bottom lip?

Yes... he does stick out his tongue, so I know he's not tongue-tied, which did cross my mind at first... I think he is just a lazy eater.

you're doing everythign right. i cna suggest that you open your mouth wide and say "open" while you're tickling his lips etc. many times a baby will try to imitate you. you could also try swaddling him to keep his hands away from his mouth (probably not that great of a suggestion if you live in a wamr climate too though)

I havent tried getting him to imitate me...he rarely is looking at me when latching on...he is more focused on the boob! He sometimes is SO aggressive he literally attacks my nipple, which is sometimes the ONLY time we get a good latch. And he growls & grunts like a tiger! It's pretty funny. That is when he gets the nickname of 'Marvin', as in 'Starvin Marvin', lol!

It is warm where I am - Northern Arizona...still in the mid 80s or so. We don't swaddle alot, as he gets too hot, but I do try to hold his hands out of the way...if only I had one more arm!

you already know too to watch for thrush also, if you were just on abx. what kind of probiotics are you using for him? you should have een at least some change after a week,maybe he could use a higher dosage? also i'd try bicycling his legs and tummy massage to help with the gas. some moms also feel that mylicon drop (or their equivalent) seem to help.

I am using a powder for kids that has acidophilus and l. reuteri in it. It is Natures Way Primadophilus Reuteri powder. I had read that l. reuteri had been researched and was found to be better for colic than Mylicon even... so, we are giving it a spin. I am still using Mylicon here and there because even after a week on the probiotics, he is still not comfortable. I just picked up some Gripe Water today at the health food store - we are just not getting any sleep at night because of his gas & discomfort, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to try, since nothing else seems to be working. I have also cut out tomatoes and tomato products from my diet. With my first son, tomatoes were found to be the culprit of causing him alot of gassiness, so I quit eating them this time too. I also have quit dairy and cucumbers. Figure once he gets back to feeling well, I will try adding back some of these things to determine if it was one of them that was causing all the gas/discomfort.

each little one is different as far as nursing experiences go, but i can tell you there is a light at the end of the tunnel, his mouth will get bigger. i'd imagine he's having his 3 week growth spurt. usually by the 6 week one, baby's mouth has gotten a tad bit bigger, so this is at least some positive news fdor you even if he doens't like to open his mouth much. you can teach him though, just keep working with him and he'll get the hang of it. :hug

I thought about that, that his mouth will get bigger as he grows, so that is definitely a positive!

Thanks SO much for your advice & help! I appreciate it!

mom2tig99Nroo03 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 11:53 AM

I am using a powder for kids that has acidophilus and l. reuteri in it. It is Natures Way Primadophilus Reuteri powder. I had read that l. reuteri had been researched and was found to be better for colic than Mylicon even... so, we are giving it a spin.

cool, i havent heard of that one. hope it works out!

let us know if that and the gripewater help. you're also already cutting out dairy, which was going to be my next suggestion.

JennyLynne · #6 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by RandiRed

Your post could have been my post when my daughter was days/weeks old except we didnt have mastisis, she was tearing my nipples so bad that i though the pain fro her nursing was worse than unmedicated labor.

Amen to that - I definitely don't miss the first few weeks of nursing and all the PAIN!! I had cracks the size of the Grand Canyon and was bleeding pretty badly from the breast I ended up getting Mastitis in.

My advice, since there are plenty of poopy/wet diapers and the weight gain is there, is to just keep doing what you are doing. Ask the docs if he has tongue tie but it most likely isnt that. I just found that it all got better as her mouth grew bigger and I found a comfortable position to keep her in. DH used to have to wake up with me in the middle of the night and hold her arms down when i was getting her to latch. I would try to keep her awake, but the dunkedness was to powerful and i would just nurse on demand. Smetimes it would be every hour or so, but it did get better as she got bigger. I thought it was never going to end and i was going to have to pump and bottle feed.

We are nursing on demand, and sometimes it is every hour. The longest he goes is 2.5 hours and that's at night. I think he does quite a bit of comfort nursing as he has been having terrible gas & discomfort due to the antibiotics I've been on, so he wants to nurse round the clock it seems.

I am hapy to hear that he isnt getting a paci. I just found that they get in the way. If they want to suck, they wantt o eat, especially at this stage. Plus, if you give the paci, their mouths get so tired from suckig that, that when it comes to feeding their mouths are too tired t do its job and its hard work to drink from mommy.

I never gave a pacifier to my first son either. Being my very first time nursing, I was so worried about nipple confusion, and desperately wanting nursing to work that I practically banned them from the house! I don't have any in the house now, except the soothie that came home from the hospital with us, but it's sitting in a drawer gathering dust. If he needs the 'soothing', then I would rather he get it from me than a synthetic source.

anyways, sorry for the long post, but mine is sleeping and this is like the only human contact i had all afternoon.

I hear ya there! My hubby works nights (2p to midnight) so it's just me & the kids in the afternoons. I don't get alot of human contact either, so I can totally sympathize with you!
Thanks for the reply!

JennyLynne · #7 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by mom2tig99Nroo03

cool, i havent heard of that one. hope it works out!

let us know if that and the gripewater help. you're also already cutting out dairy, which was going to be my next suggestion.

The Gripe Water has been a blessing! From trying Mylicon to Colic Tablets to the probiotics, the Gripe Water has surely been the best one of the lot. Jett woke up every 2-2.5 hours last night (mostly to eat), and had alot less discomfort & screaming outbursts as he did the night before. Night before last, he woke up at least every hour screaming as if someone were pulling his toe off, poor thing! I got more sleep last night, and even though it was a small amount more...every little bit does count when you are sleep deprived!

I really don't know about the dairy though... I eliminated it with my first son and it didn't make any difference. Through trial & error, we determined tomatoes of all things was causing the fussiness & discomfort. I have been at wits end thoughwith Jett, and have just about eliminated everything that 'could' cause gassiness to see if there is any relief. I feel that I am doing 'too' much eliminating to find out what exactly is causing Jett's gassiness (if it's even diet related to begin with!!) I figure if things do improve with him, then I will start to add back some of the things I've eliminated to see if one of them was the culprit. Don't know if I can do without my dairy though... I love me a nice cold TCBY with peanut butter cups, and a sandwich just isn't a sandwich without cheese!!

mom2tig99Nroo03 · #8 (**permalink**) 08-11-2007, 12:44 PM

so he wants to nurse round the clock it seems.

this is alos a symptom of relfux...

i'm glad the gripe water is helping