....but I'm so close. Since the day after Emily was born, we've been supplimenting formula. I know NOW that we shouldn't have introduced it so early. I've seen 4 different LC's and our feeding schedule (for lack of a better term) is kind of erratic now. She gets mostly formula, but we're using a lactation aid (tube thingy) to give her 2oz of formula while she's latched on to me. I'm supposed to be pumping after feedings, but seriously, when the choice is between sleep and pumping, I'm opting for sleep at the moment.

And the pumping .... I'm not even getting 10ml from BOTH sides during one pumping session. I know, I know, the amount that comes out doesn't have anything to do with production. But when I hear about people pumping ounces and ounces, well I'm discouraged.

I'm taking fenugreek 3x per day (3 pills each time) and considering adding blessed thistle as well. We were told we should rent a hospital grade double pump, but the cost is prohibitive right now. I found a double pump online that I like that's not $500, so when DH gets his taxes, I might be able to get it.

I don't know, I guess I'm just venting. I know I'm doing all I can to try to boost what little supply I have, but the tube thing is starting to bug. Oh and to top it all off, my breasts ITCH like mad when she's latched on. I found a site that said this can be caused by the let down. I know I don't have thrush...we checked. It's still annoying.

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Please take a breath and try to relax. I would try to start putting DD on the breast as much as possible now to stimulate more milk production without the feeding tube supplimet thing. The more ou let her actually suck on YOU the more you will produce. It is hard to get there. What she sucks for today, she will get tomorrow. Your body will make tommorw as much or more than what she sucks for today. Does that make sense?

Since she is a bit bigger, it may be easier for her. Every day gets better and it will get better. When people talk about pumping so much, thats most likely when they are more well established in their shedule and stuff. That typically comes around 3ish months. Please try not to be discouraged.

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Co-Host of Born in June 2007

you cna have thrush even if you and baby have no visible symptoms, BUT if you only itch when she's latched on, that isn't it. you'd be itchy all the time.

the good news is you are in canada, which means you should be able to get domperidone pretty eaisly, you cna use it in conjunction with the fenugreek if you wishj.

as for the fenugreek itself, have you noticed that you smell like maple syrup? (especialy your urine, sweat, etc.) if not, you should increase the dosage of the fenugreek, also make sure you're dirnking adequate fluids, eating adequate protein, and oatmeal is a great natural supply booster as well.

using the sns/lactaid (or whatever brand you're using) is likely the best thing you can do right now- i would suggest taking a "nursing holiday" if you didn't have other kids to take care of. (stay topless and in bed with baby at the breast for a few days straight- getting up only to bathe eat etc)

do you have a sling? are you using pacifiers? what was the initial reason for using aim? if a medical reason, is the issue resolved? have you had any kind of breast trauma (surgery or otherwise?) do you or baby have any current medical issues? are you on ANY kind of birth control or medicines? (including sinus/cold meds). what kind of pump are you using? as for a 500 dollar pump, you should be able to find one for LOTS less. there is a site (i will look for it for you in a little while) where you can get the (imo) best pump you can buy. a medela pumpNstyle.

how often are you able to manage pumping right now? if you were exclusively pumping, i'd recommend approximately 10 times a day to establish your supply.

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i agree with randi to try to not get discouraged, but i would work out a plan to reduce the amount of aim she receives through the supplementer.

randi- if a mom has a VERY low supply or slow letdown reflex, and baby is used to getting instant gratification (like with a fake nipple), it can make both mom and baby get real frustrated trying to nurse if the baby is aggravated about little to no flow.

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still havent remembered where that site is, but i'll look again in the morning. the prices were better at this site (new) than even on ebay etc.


maybe judi over on the pumping board remembers the name of the site....

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Oh wow, lots of questions....okay, let me see if I can answer them all.

The LC mentioned the prescription for the dom stuff, but I don't have provincial health coverage yet (still a US citizen / resident), so the cost of the doctor visit + prescription is kind of ouchie right now. I'm taking 9 fenugreek pills a day, but I don't smell like maple syrup yet. It's funny when I told DH about the maple smell, his response was "you know you're in Canada when...."

I'm not sure what sns or aim is....I do have other kids to take care of. Granted they're older, but I was thinking of the nursing holiday thing sometime this week. I mean it can't hurt, right?

I've been trying to drink alot of water. I don't have pop in the house that I can drink (sugar tolerance issues) so caffeine isn't a problem for me. I DO have hydration issues. I have a condition called Idiopathic Central Diabetes Insipidus. It's Idiopathic because they don't know how I got it. It's usually caused by head trauma, a tumor on the pituitary gland, or brain surgery on or near the pituitary gland...of which I've had none. Central comes from the part of the body it's in...there's central (pituitary related) or nephrogenic (kidney related). The diabetes part is that the symptoms mimic the symptoms of diabetes mellitus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with my blood sugar.

What does this mean? It means I take a medication twice a day to keep my body from dehydrating itself. Without the medication, I drink 5+ gallons of water a day and pee approximately 20 or so liters....per day. So, I have to stay on top of my medication and drink alot of water anyways.

I also have low iron. When I delivered my iron count was 83, upon leaving the hospital it was 76. During pregnancy, they want your iron to be 115 or higher. Mine is so low due to the fact that I had a gastric bypass surgery 2 and a half years ago and have issues with vitamin and mineral absorbtion. When I remember (yes I know, bad Jenny), I'm taking 2-3 200mg iron suppliments in combination with vitamin c to help them absorb quicker.

I want a sling. I have a pattern for a no sew moby wrap that I'd like to make as soon as I can find the appropriate fabric. Emily doesn't really like pacifiers and prefers to nom on her hands / my fingers when she has a sucking need. I'm not on any kind of birth control. I take the medication mentioned above as well as the fenugreek and iron suppliments.

My BF'ing issues started with a latch problem. We discovered Emily has a very mild tongue tie. I was taught proper latching techniques and told to come back in 2 days. 2 days later, she'd lost more weight and the LC was concerned. We were told at this time to give her 2-3 oz of formula in addition to offering her the breast first. The next LC we saw said that was too much formula and introduced us to the lactation aid tube thingy. She still gets 2 oz of formula, but she gets it while she's sucking on me. It appears that I'm one of those rare cases in which I actually do have a low supply.

As for the pump. I'm probably exaggerating a bit, but at the Babies R Us nearest to our house, DH and I saw the medela double deluxe electric ...does everything except change your baby's diaper for you....pump for $499. We bought a single electric first years pump for much much less. However, we were later told that single pumps are generally for very occasional use. Definitely not for someone who has to pump once a day or more. I found a pump online that I like and will probably get once DH gets his tax refund. I think I'm managing to pump maybe once a day. Honestly, I don't like pumping. It's noisy and uncomfortable and well....I'm making excuses. Heck, even DH says I need to pump more. I'll try, I really will.

Canada doesn't have a WIC program like they do in the states, so if we do stop BF'ing, formula is very very expensive. Honestly, I'd rather BF my baby. Besides the medical benefits, it's cheap (free), portable, and always available when demand calls for it.

Oh and Emily isn't one of those babies that will pull off the nipple when there's a slow / no flow. She'll just sit there and chew me to death and be perfectly happy about it. In the end though, I know it's all about keeping her healthy and happy and fed. I have another appt with the LC on the 24th to check the baby's weight and see how we're progressing. I know she's going to push the double pump...which I hope to have before my appt.

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For the itching try an over the counter cortizone cream after feeding and as long as its been over 30+ min btween feeding you dont have to wash it off.

Goodluck you are doing great. I second the nursing holiday! (and all the other advice too!)

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Patty 37
DW Julie 40
"domestically partnered" since 1994

are you in contact with lll? where are you?

here is info for lll in canada.
La Leche League Canada: View Local Group Information

i'd definately increase the fenugreek. you're not taking enough if you don't have the maple odor. lol about what you dh said.

sns= supplemental nursing system
aim= artificial infant milk

as long as they're old enough to (safely) entertain themselves, or you have someone that can keep an eye on the etc for you, i completely agree that it can't hurt to spend some time cuddling and nursing and cuddling and nursing, etc.
i'll admit my total ignorance in the first issue, but i know the anemia itself isn't affecting milk supply, however i wonder if the gastric bypass has anythign to do with it, approximately how many calories a day would you sya you're getting? it is possible you're not getting enough...

will your ped/doct/midwife go ahead and just clip the frenulum? it only bleeds a little bit, and the baby can go to breast immediately afterwards to cease the bleeding even quicker, and the latch is fixed almost instantly that way. some midwives even used to keep a long pinky nail, and if there was a latch problem at birth, and a tongue-tie discovered, they'd sweep it real quick right then latch baby on. as far as the lcs you're seeing, are they all board certified lactation consultants? or is it just a nurse who is being called an lc? i know nothing about the geography of canada, are you anywhere close to one of dr newman's breastfeeding clinics?
i'd DEFINATELY look online instead of close to your house. the double deluxe isn't even as good as the pumpnstyle, and it costs less.

just a quick google grabbed this one: Buy Medela Pump In Style Original Breastpump Online at drugstore.com

Medela Breast Pump- Brand New - eBay (item 270226281420 end time Apr-15-08 22:07:44 PDT)

57027-SHOULDER BAG-MEDELA ADVANCED PIS BREASTPUMP-NEW!! - eBay (item 160228442700 end time Apr-16-08 14:52:16 PDT)

NEW...MEDELA ADVANCED BREASTPUMP...NEW - eBay (item 250237405654 end time Apr-16-08 15:17:29 PDT)

New 2008 Medela Advanced Backpack Pump In Style - eBay (item 120246836450 end time Apr-16-08 16:53:56 PDT)

medela new, Feeding, Baby items on eBay.com

and there are a lot more retail stores that don't have their prices published, (per medela policy ) but you can email or call them - and you'll find even better deals.

if pumping is hurting, it probably has a lot to do with the fact that it is a first years pump- they are notorious for either having such poor suction that they don't express well, or for such strong suction that they can damage tissue. either, a waste of money. pumps are one of the few things that i agree with the phrase "you get what you pay for"
still talking just about costs- you could probably BUY a medical grade pump (what would usually be a rental) for less than the cost of a year's worth of aim.

NEW MEDELA LACTINA ELECTRIC SELECT HOSPITAL BREAST PUMP - eBay (item 320238660425 end time Apr-15-08 19:02:09 PDT)

Medela Lactina Select Double Breast Pump Hospital Grade - eBay (item 330228059484 end time Apr-18-08 14:08:15 PDT)

Medela Lactina Breast Pump Hospital Grade - eBay (item 130213986460 end time Apr-18-08 17:14:12 PDT)

Medela Lactina Select Breast Pump - eBay (item 180233457125 end time Apr-19-08 18:31:11 PDT)


you could then in turn sell it when you're done with it, and recoup quite a bit of your cost.

well, in a way that is a good thing- not the chewing but more that she'll stay at the breast even when milk isn't actively flowing. the more she nurses, the more milk your body will be signaled that it needs to make, barring that rare possibility that you're not taking in enough calories to make a full supply of milk.

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jenny

you sound like me! lol you are doing great!

i use the medela pump in style advance. ( using it atm )

what i would do was pump after nursing her (both sides at the same time)

i would try to pump while she ate...

try nursing her in different positions

i now pump once in the morning, in the afternoon and right before bed.

she wakes around 4 and i pump then too

we gave a lil formula in the begining to..and all i can say about that is .....put the stuff away!

she will get what she needs when she needs it.

also before you pump (tmi maybe) play with your nips a lil or hold a warm rag on them

HTH hand in there! listen to these ladies they know their stuffs

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Michelle (25) and Brad (28)

HOST OF TTC 2+ YEARS
HOST OF Alternative/Herbal/Non-Traditional

You're getting some great advice!

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here is the info for dr newman, if you're interested.

Dr. Jack Newman's The Visual Guide to Breastfeeding - Clinics

looks like there are only 2 clinics in canada run by them specifically now- one in toronto and one in montreal, are either of those close to you?

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I've been to the website and read the forums some. I haven't called anyone yet. There's not much LLL can do about my low supply.

I'm counting calories today to see approx how much I'm eating. Here it is almost dinner and I've only had about 700-ish. So, not getting enough calories is a very strong possibility.

It's actually not an issue anymore. The other day, my oldest daughter was holding Emily while I made dinner and made a remark that there were some red spots near her mouth on her footies. So I went and looked and the baby was bleeding. DH and I searched for a source and determined that her frenulum was cut. We don't know how or when, as Emily never cried in pain, but her latch is much much better now and once in a while, she actually stays on the breast alot longer than normal.

The main problem is that Canada gets really screwed on retail prices. Babies R Us Canada prices the Medela PIS at $330 while BRU US prices it almost $100 less. I'm sure I could look at other retailers to price check, and I definitely will when we have the money and have to make the decision to continue this or give it up for good. Also, one of the problems with ordering online is that many baby type products are not permitted to be shipped over the border. And if they are allowed to go over the border, the shipping costs, duties and taxes make it not worth the price difference.

As far as the type of sns we're using, it's just a graduated bottle with a tube through the nipple. The tube has 2 small holes near the end and she sucks it out from there while she's attached to the breast. We've been using Nestle Good Start with the Omega 3 and 6 since we were given a can by a friend and received a free can in the mail after she was born. I'm all about the free samples and gifts atm.

I think I actually got a taste of what it was like to be engorged (in my own little way) last night. My breasts were semi hard and it hurt to even brush fabric across the nipples. Getting her latched on was a lesson in torture that I think the US military could learn alot from.

Oh and to answer your other question. I'm in Mississauga. It's just a wee bit south of Toronto. Really not far at all.

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hmmm, any way you could add some olive oil to your food, or maybe have some avocado or another good source of fat/calories without being too uncomfortably full?

do you drink milkshakes/protein shakes/nutrition shakes etc, maybe you could some extra powdered milk or powdered nutrition product etc to it to thicken it up (and bulk up the calories by just a bit.) i'm not suggesting going crazy and overexpanding what is left of your stomach pouch etc by any means, but tryign to get in a few more calories for the benefit of milk production.

as for what lll can do, maybe your local leader has a couple of ideas i havent thought of yet

they may even know of a mother who has an oversuply problem who'd be willing to give you a little extra milk so you don't have to buy aim. the samples run out pretty quick. in general this means the lo will wnat to nurse lots more frequently to help build up milk supply more. just letting you know, if she seems to be wanting to be on the breast for longer, that is a GOOD thing


has your lc given you any other suggestions for how to wean off the supplement, or has she not discussed that with you yet?

how much does the lil one weigh anyways?

what was her birth weight?

i see she is around the 3 week mark. it is a typical time for a growth spurt.

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