DD was born 11.15.07, and we're struggling with bfing. UGH! I so want this to work, so any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Even words of encouragement would help at this point!

Not sure exactly where to start, but here's the run-down, as short as I can make it. DD had trouble latching on from the beginning, bc I have flat/inverted nipples. The LC gave me nipple shields, and DD would latch pretty well, but she got frustrated QUICKLY when she didn't get something immediately.

The LC (or a nurse) worked with us nearly every feeding while in the hospital. On the second day, the LC recommended the SNS because DD got so frustrated so quickly. It worked OK, but she is a very lazy latcher. She latches, sucks 5-6 times, then falls asleep. She'll do this for about 10 min, and then she is completely done.

We were sent home with the SNS, which I faithfully used until my milk came in. It was in for 14 hours, but DD never sucked hard enough for it start flowing, so the LC recommended a hospital pump to relieve the engorgement. She also recommended bottle-feeding her every other feed, since she was getting more jaundiced. We have been doing that since, although now she doesn't like the SNS either. I've still been trying it or just latching her on every other feed. She's soooooo lazy, though, and I don't know if it's just her (she's lazy, even with a bottle) or if she's gotten to used to the bottle.

We met with the LC last Monday to see if we could get her to latch, and based on her swallow, the LC thinks that the suctioning that was done on DD after birth irritated her throat, which is making her not want to swallow, and excaberting the whole situation. She recommended letting her get past that, continuing to alternate bottle/breast or SNS, and meeting with her again on this upcoming Thursday. She seems very confident that we can still make this work, but to be honest, I'm getting discouraged. DD is just soooo lazy...even with the bottle, she's so lazy with her latch and suck.

Any ideas? Or success stories of babies learning to latch after two weeks? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Sorry if the story is disjointed...there just seems to be so much to it!

Thanks in advance,

Amy

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First let me say congrats on the birth of your daughter, she's beautiful!

Second, I'm terribly sorry you're having such a tough time. I too was very determined to make breastfeeding work and I got very lucky that we didn't have much trouble in the beginning.

I'm sure Mamabear will have some good technical suggestions for you.

I would just say stick with it. Lots of babies are very lazy in the beginning. Also try hard not to watch the clock because having your heart set on baby feeding for a certain amount of time is frustrating and unnecessary. While I think giving the bottle at this time is a big risk I'm not a doctor so I won't say it's a mistake. I would however, STRONGLY suggest you offer the breast before offering the bottle at every feeding. I would encourage you to offer the breast frequently, any time baby shows any sign of hunger especially but also if baby is fussy offer the breast for comfort. Do not use a pacifier as it's yet another alternative to the breast and your dd really needs to receive comfort from the breast.

What are you doing to empty the breast when you give dd a bottle? You should definitely be pumping since this time is crucial for establishing your supply.

I hope things get better for you. Please don't give up, breastfeeding your baby is an incredible gift and an experience you'll treasure.

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Hang in there! My son had no suck reflex when he was born and had to be "trained". I cried and cried trying to get BF to work during those 1st few weeks. Many people told me if you can hang in there for 4 weeks you can make it a year! While I thought they were looney at the time - they were so right. You are almost there....hand in there! The main thing is to stay determined - that is the key!

***By the way I went on to nurse my son for a year! I am currently nursing my 7month old daughter as well. You can do it!

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***Sara***
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Hi, Amy!

I agree that Mamabear will have some great suggestions for you.

Keep it up! I agree with Kenda, offer the breast first at every opportunity and try to keep pacifiers away if possible. See if Elise can/will use you as a pacifier because that might help. It's annoying to be the human paci sometimes and very time consuming(I was that with Vivian because she wouldn't take ANY artificial nipples), but every bit of stimulation for her and for you might help.

Many babies with a lazy latch improve as they get older. I wish I knew more about inverted nipples for you!

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Thanks, ladies! I appreciate the kind words of support and the ideas. And Noahsmommy, thanks for sharing your story...it definitely gives me hope!

DD is not a pacifier baby, so that's not an issue. They did give her one in the nursery, but she's not had one since. She doesn't seem to have the need to suck to self-soothe.

Every time DD wants to nurse, I pump. I'm pumping about 42 oz. every day, while she's eating around 20, so supply is not an issue.

Based on your suggestions, I've offered her the breast every time she wants to eat. She gets very mad, but I figure sooner or later, she'll start to figure out that it's her source of food! Also, last night, we had one of our more successful SNS feedings in a while...she ate for a good 15 min before she gave up, which hasn't happened in quite a while.

I'm soooo determined to make this work, so keep the suggestions coming....I know we can do this if we can just get past this last hurdle!!!!

Thanks,

Amy

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<squeals over beautiful baby in your siggy> first off, congrats mama. she is precious. now down to business.


nipples that protrude ARE a help, but are not necessary. (says the former owner of one flat nipple and one semi-inverted partially flat nipple). the baby needs to latch onto the areola, not the nipple.

so she'll latch on and nurse with the sns for about 10 minutes, while frequently falling asleep, and she will want to nurse again what, about half an hour later? (are you combining the nipple shields with the sns?)

did the lc talk to you about weaning off the shields? did she tell you about nipple SHELLS to help draw out your nipples a little since she indicated/felt that it may be a nipple problem? what about just pumping for a few seconds before attempting to latch on the kiddo as this will a) draw the nipple out a bit, and b) get the milk flowing for instant gratification for the baby.

other than jaundice, did she/does she have any other medical issues? is she currently on any meds? are you? did you have pain meds or other meds for your labor/delivery? if so, what kind?

how comfortable are you with the idea of ditching the bottle entirely for the time being? i'll assume the jaundice issues have all been worked through, right? if not, that could be part of the sleepiness issue, as jaundiced little ones are very typically sleepyheads. what *i* would recommend, as long as you're comfortable with it, is using an alternative method of feeding to supplement nursings, such as a softfeeder (my personal favorite), a finger-feeder, a syringe, an eyedropper, a spoon, a shotglass or even a dixie type bathroom cup. all of these things can be used to feed the baby, while not compounding latching difficulties. i have worked with MANY moms, and even the moms who don't have flat/inverted nipples do not have 2 inch long bottle type nipples.

also, have you tried to nurse her when she's almost asleep to start with? many times babies can latch well in their sleep another idea is water rebirthing. basically all it is is tkaing a nice warm (not hot) bath with baby. you'll of course want to have your hub or a support person in the bathroom with you for safety, and to hold the baby while you get in/out of the bathtub, and you'll need to apply alcohol (or an alternative) to the cord stump to help it dry (if it hasn't fallen off yet). basically you get in the water, put the baby in with you, have baby tummy to tummy with you, and make your breasts easily accessiblke. you don't want to push much, especially the first time, but sometimes the warm water and the snuggling helps recreate a womblike environment and encourages better latching.

did she have a lot of meconium, re: the heavy suctioning? i'm going to guess the lc did check real quick to make sure the baby's frenulum wasn't tooo tight, right? (the little flap of skin under the tongue).

ideas are above my story of hope/inspiration for you is my oldest child. he took almost 6 months to leanr to nurse correctly, due imo to archaic practices at the hospital i delivered him at and things that happened during and after his delivery. i ep'd for him until then. i have used every bf device pretty much that medela made in the years 99 and 2000 : he continued to nurse until i got pregnant with his sister in 2002 and then weaned himself
disjointed is perfectly fine, understandable, and even somewhat expected with a newborn- especially one with issues.

let me grab a couple of links for you, just in case you've never heard of some of the thigns i talked about.

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softshells: (the ones with the smaller holes are for inverted/flat nipples.
http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/breas...tml#softshells

softfeeder (i used one with my son, and i had my mil use it for my daughter when i had to have emergency surgery when she was not even 3 weeks old, so she could get my expressed milk without taking the chance of an artificial nipple interfering with our bf relationship.)
http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/speci...tml#softfeeder

my preferred cup feeder: http://www.foleycup.com/
medela's cup feeder
http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/speci...g.html#babycup
finger feeder http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/speci...tml#hazelbaker

water rebirthing:

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water rebirthing: ( a lll trick that an old leader of mine recommended )
oh, and i do want to point out that the sns can be used as a finger feeder as well. you just won' tbe able to squeeze it to increase flow.

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http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T026000.asp

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/...to-breast.html

if nothing else, you pumping frequently is helping to insure an awesome supply. that will come in handy, since growth spurts are coming again soon. (she probably just had her first, at around 10 days old)

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WOW! Thanks, Mama Bear, for all the info. I feel bad that you went to all that trouble, and it seems that we're working things out!

We had a ped appt Monday and I was discussing it with him, and he gave me several tips, including his #1 tip, that I just needed to relax. What do you know? I came home from that appt 48 hours ago, and she's had 2 bottles since then! That's it...she's been nursing!!!!!

We still have a few hurdles to get over, but I see a giant light at the end of the tunnel. She doesn't like my left breast nor is she patient enough to get the milk flowing on her own, so I pump for about 60 seconds before latching her on. But those both seem like workable hurdles at this point.

One question if anyone reads this...I've read that nursing should take 20-45 minutes, but she often nurses for 8-10 min and regardless of what I do to get her to re-latch (burp, de-robe, change diaper, wake her up, etc.), she will not relatch and goes to sleep. She sleeps fine until about 3 hours later when she wants to eat again. She's having regular bms and wet diapers. Is it possible she's just extremely efficient or I have lots of milk? Or do I really need to work harder at getting her to nurse for 20 min minimum?

Thanks again...I really appreciate all the help and words of encouragement!

Amy

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as long as she is havign plenty of wet and dirty dipes, developmentally on target, and growing appropriately, she is getting plenty of milk, and tryign to convince her to nurse longer will liklely do nothign but tick her off, lol. (otoh, there are growth spurts ahead where you'll wonder instead if she is ever gonna be finished, lol).

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Update that's been cross-posted, just because you've all been so nice to help me:

11/29:

OMG!!! By golly, I think we have it down!!!!! I can hardly believe it!!!!!

My appt was at noon, so I fed her at about 8:30 AM and made her wait, since they wanted a hungry baby. The LC had the time wrong, and didn't get there until after 1 PM. She was super-duper apologetic, but Elise was starving, and I was near tears, as I didn't sleep but 2 hours last night.

HOWEVER, it was well worth the wait...and get this...it's been MY fault all along. I feel so guilty...my first new mom guilt trip. LOL

I wasn't supporting my breast properly, so she couldn't get her poor little chin/jaw under my nipple properly. That's why she was so fussy about latching on.

The LC helped me position my hand, and she latched on immediately. She swallows with nearly every suck, which explains her world-record efficiency. She also latched right onto the left side, which was a FIRST! She nursed for about 12 minutes total (both sides) and was done. The LC estimated that she got 3 oz in that time.

I feel soooooo great! The LC said that we should be good to go, as long as I remember how to support my breast and position my fingers. My milk lets down immediately, and Elise has a perfect latch and suck/swallow. And the best part? It really doesn't hurt when they are latched on properly...no more shooting fire out my nipples!

She ate again when we got home, and it went great. I'm knocking on wood, but I think we just turned the last major corner that we needed to turn!

Oh, and I have a bunch of frozen breast milk that I am going to donate to a milk bank. I'm going to pump until this rental is due so I can get as much as possible for them, since I have production out the wazooooo....

11/30:

The last 24 hours have been amazing. We've had no real issues with bfing, other than it sometimes takes us a few shots to get her latched right, but that's minor at this point.

A few great things about bfing from the last day:

-She's a more relaxed baby...probably partly because I'm more relaxed and partly because she is so much more relaxed when she bf vs. bottle feeds. She lays there with her eyes closed...it's so sweet.

-Last night was awesome. She got up twice to eat...I got her out of the bassinette, into bed with me, she ate, I changed her, and I was back asleep within 30 minutes. I got nearly 8 hours of sleep!!!!

-The two of us were just upstairs working, and she got fussy, even though she had eaten about an hour earlier. I sat down on the bed, fed her, she fell asleep, and I kept right on working. How easy was that!?!?!?!?!

All the struggles the past two weeks were so worth it now!!!!

Amy

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I am so happy for you and little Elise! Isn't it wonderful when they just lie there, sweetly eating with their eyes closed all relaxed? I can relax when Irene is like that even when my 2yr old is being a little snot, LOL. Yay for sleep!!!

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wooooooohooooooooooo!!! awesome news, am so glad thigns are so much better :0

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