Hi Ladies,
I need some advice....Holly is 4 1/2 years old and very strong-willed. At her last appt in January, I told the doctor how bad her behavior was and that i was concerned and she assured me it was normal behavior for a 4 year old and to give her time outs in her room is needed and to just keep at it.

Well 6 months later and we have gotten nowhere. I watch SuperNanny and have her book and she tells you to just keep putting them back in the timeout until they sit and take it, but it is not working for us.

Holly gets upset when she is told no and loses it. She screams, hits and kicks and tells us we are stupid. When she does something beyong the screaming (like hitting us) or hitting Samantha, we give her a warning and then we put her in her room on her bed for 4 minutes and explain to her she is being punished for the bad behavior. She gets off the bed and stands in her doorway and screams hysterically. We go back in and put her back on the bed constantly and she wont sit. She gets up and gets more hysterical. I feel like I have to hold her down on the bed to get her to stay. She screams so loud she cant hear what I am telling her and she does not stop. If we shut the door, she pounds on it until there are dents in the door. It is crazy! I have spent hours dealing with this and getting nowhere.

What would you do?

Keep at it?
Try something else?
Ask the pedi for a referral to a counselor to see if there is more to it?

I just need some advice. I feel like I am ready to call the dr and get help, but hate doing that and over-reacting. My sister in law saw a tiny bit of this behavior yesterday and said I should call. Holly got mad at her for shutting her door and sat on my lap and cried for 20 minutes for no reason.

Anyways, I need to do something at this point, but just dont know where to start.

Thanks in advance!

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[center]Sue and Peter
Proud Parents to Holly Ann (4.5) & Samantha Rose (17 months)

Mommy knows best so if you think there is a problem, there just might be. A call wouldn't hurt. If you think you need a second opinion, do it.
Document stuff as it happens (he times it happens, what she did to get a time out, and what she does in the time out). Maybe video tape it or voice record it. Take pics of dents in the doors or anything worth taking. Any kind of proof helps so that the drs don't think its just age.

GL and I hope you get some answers.

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Rachel
Proud Mother of 2 Boys and a Girl
Isaac David - February 2004
Carson Eli - January 2006
Kianna Rachelle - May 2008





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How long do you have to deal with her when she keeps getting out of time out before you throw in the towel? Do you take away her most cherished thing or privilege? I'm picturing a bare room w/ a bed in it, but if that's what it takes. Heck I'd even paint the room bland and tell her she can earn every pink stripe.

Tucker can be a handful, not to her extreme, but enough for me to want to lock myself away lest I do or say something I'll regret. It's quite a challenge. He's a different boy after Carsen has gone to bed. I've started taking toys away, little by little, when he won't pick up his toys. I'll tell him what toy is at stake of being given away if he does not comply.

Silly boy was trying to negotiate which toy I could give away. "I'm the Mom. I GET to say which toy." Have you tried to see how long it takes before Holly complies? Or does she know that you'll give in if she sticks it out a little longer? I read somewhere it took one man two hrs for his 2YR OLD to own up to her bad behavior. Sounds like Holly can last longer than 2.

I'm in no way saying you give up quickly. I've been there at least a dozen times this past WKND! It sounds like you need to block off a whole day or half a day just to call her bluff. Tons of hugs. I'd be curious to see what it takes to win the battle of wills THEN I'd call for an expert.

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You know, after reading your "chit chat" is she like this during the school year? You said she needs a routine like she may thrive in a structured environment. May be she likes to make decisions for herself but you can control that by offering two three choices.

I'm sure you don't want to break her spirit but may be an expert can help you find a way to work with her SW spirit? There's hope so don't give up.

I say trust your instinct. If you think you should pursue this further, then I would call. It couldn't hurt, if nothing else it gives you a chance to vent to a professional who can give you more coping mechanisms. Good luck.

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Neda & Mike
and SweetPea makes us complete!



"Anyone who doesn't support your dreams isn't going to help you reach them."

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Jocelyn is very strong willed and it took me a long time to figure out what worked best with her. Time outs do nothing for her. I have started taking away privileges such as tv (which is very important to her) and that seems to work better. I have taken toys away for the entire day.

Now Avery is the crier. She will wail if she feels injustified. I tell her to go to her room or another room until she is done because I cannot stand to listen to it.

Maybe it does have to do with the structure of the day. At school she knows that things are going to happen in a certain order everyday.

Good luck and I will be curious to see how things turn out. I know it is tough some times to keep your sanity!

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Jaime mom to
Jocelyn Marie June 20, 2003
Avery Lynn January 20, 2005
Aiden Charles September 10, 2007

Kate still has moments like that. Here are some of my random thoughts. In no particular order.

Time outs don't work that great for us either (I've stood there and held her door closed to keep ME from doing something I'll regret!). What has been working better for both of my kids (note I said "better"... still doesn't always work) is to take something away immediately. If they start fighting over a stool while getting popsicles, then they loose the popsicles (that happened today!). If they aren't getting their shoes on when I ask, then they don't get to go to the park. Some of it has been "big" in their eyes and hasn't been fun for me (like not gonig to the park) but it got the message across pretty quickly. Just have to be careful to follow through. I've also been working on no warnings for behaviors that they know are not appropriate. I don't say "If you don't stop fighting, you'll lose the popsicles" over and over. I just take the popsicles away. Sometimes I get a massive temper tantrum, but I just ignore it and walk away (and walk away when they follow, and walk away again, and again...). I try to not even acknowledge it. I noticed what I thought was Kate sometimes misbehaving just to get attention (even if it was negative attention). Putting her back in her room over and over and over until I lost it was giving her attention. The temper tantrums mostly subsided when I truly ignored them.

The other thing that I have been trying (which wierdly isn't easy for me) is giving her positive praise when she is behaving well. I just don't think about it until she is misbehaving.

I've also had to force myself to not react. No matter how bad things are getting, I act like it is not a big deal. I try to keep my voice even and calm. Sometimes I think she is really trying to get a reaction out of me.

My favorite parenting books are How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, Love & Logic, and Postive Discipline.

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I agree w/ Kristen about not reacting. My problem is taking everything personal. I'm the adult. I'm the one supposedly in control. I REALLY have a hard time keeping an even tone. Tucker knows how to push my buttons and 9 times out of 10 I fall for it.

I like the idea of no warning. I have to remember that.