I was wondering if their were any other EC/diaper free people out there who are working on NCCS. Specifically, we are wondering if our son's night waking has anything to do with his need to pee. Sometimes when he wakes up from naps, he gives us the bathroom sign. I take him to pee, and then he comes back and finishes his nap (other times once he gets up to pee he is up for good).

Our son is 7 months old and basically diaper free. He wakes up anywhere from 6 to 14 times a night and nurses back to sleep. He wears a diaper at night so I don't have to take him to the bathroom but now I am wondering if that is part of the problem. Has anyone else worked through the NCCS and done EC at the same time?

Hi,
I've heard of this type of toilet training, but I have no experience with how it affects night waking. I'll check around to see if there is any info on that!

__________________








Host of:
The No Cry Sleep Solution
Attachment Parenting

I wrote a similar question to the "diaper-free" and "elimination communication" listservs/message boards. Unfortunately, no one seemed to know about the NCSS book. Everyone responded with things like, "your baby may cry a little when you try to pee him at night."

Based on the fact that I can't find any NCSS folks doing-diaper free and any diaper-free folks doing NCSS, I am wondering if they are incompatible?

My main concern is pantley's advice about keeping the lights low and doing quick changes in bed if needed. If I take Nikhil to pee at night, we use a little potty by the bedside and turn on the nightlight. We havent taken him to pee at night since a little after his sleep troubles began at 5 months when he was teething. We thought, "put him in a disposable and let him sleep undisturbed." We are now thinking (at nearly 8 months old) that perhaps he wants us to take him to pee at night. It could be that his frequent night waking (up to 14 times) may be a need to pee - and instead, I nurse him and he holds it - and then he wakes right back up with a need to pee again (but even worse cuz he keeps nursing).

So again, if anyone has done diaper-free and worked through sleep issues, I would love some advice.

Thanks
Nisha
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I went ahead and wrote to Elizabeth about this as I was having no luck on various message boards. She sent me the form response as well as these few words - this may help other folks:

~~~ In addition, I have added a few suggestions for you after these main points:

---- I don’t have any specific information about sleep issues and EC babies, but I will send along the chapter about bedwetting from No-Cry Sleep for Toddlers – this may be helpful. Also, Nisha – trust yourself. You know your baby better than anyone and if you suspect that his nightwaking is related to EC it very well may be….

I know, it is not much, but it helped a little

nisha

Hi again,
I'm glad Elizabeth Pantley wrote you back. I haven't gotten to the section on potty training with toddlers in the NCSS for toddlers - did that section of the book help?

I still don't know very much about diaper free babies, but I think it's a great idea. It sounds very challenging, but rewarding in the end, I'd think!

I don't think the two ideas have to be incompatible (NCSS and 'diaper free') but there is an element of needing to create some of your own solutions for this particular method, seeing as they aren't in the book. You have probably already started to do this, seeing as the first time you wrote was quite a while ago without much helpful response (sorry about that!). I've been thinking about this idea on and off, though, and I'd think that a little one needing to pee at night would be connected to EP's first section about making sure everything is okay first when baby wakes up crying... she says to make sure the baby isn't hurt, or hungry, or ill etc to make sure that the only reason the baby is crying is because the baby feels he needs to be comforted back to sleep, and it's our job to gently teach them how to do this themselves. I think I would add needing to pee to the list of things to check before using the gentle methods of trying to go back to sleep; because you would most certainly want to confirm your baby's feeling that he needs to pee. It's possible that it may take a while for a little one to develop the ability to sleep longer lengths of time before needing to pee.

Are you using the "Diaper Free!" book? Out of interest in the topic, and also because I'm hoping there is some help in there for this, I have some questions about this book, if you are using it... I am looking at a website that has the table of contents of that book and in chapter 2 there are sections entitled: "Responding to baby's signals and cries" and "When babies' cries and signals are not answered". Are those sections helpful at all in terms of sleeping time? Also wondering about chapter 8's
"-Daytime and nighttime differences" and what is talked about there? Does that explain some reasoning for waking frequently, or what to do? Or chapter 9's "Timing and sleep" section have any ideas? Sorry for all the questions! I wish I had the book so I could check myself! Maybe I'll see if the library has it, because it sounds so interesting! Anyway chaper 11 has what looks like a bigger section with all of these ideas which sound fruitful (hopefully):
"Sleeping and nighttime
-Tuning in at night
-Diaper-less on an absorbent pad
-Using diapers at night
-Diapering with modifications
-Using a combination
-Bed protection for nighttime"

...anyway, I'd love to hear what any of those sections say, because I'd love to know the different ideas of how this works at night... I read several articles on being 'diaper free' and it's fascinating to me! I can't believe I only heard about it this past year seeing as it's been around forever!

Again, love to hear from you!

__________________








Host of:
The No Cry Sleep Solution
Attachment Parenting

Thanks for writing back Zennifer! I just checked the board the first time today in a while.

To answer your questions, I do have the diaper free book but have lent it out. It was very helpful in getting me started. What was even more helpful was that three other moms from my homebirth class were doing it with their babies. We all continued to meet every week after birth and so were really good support for each other early on. Our baby is basically diaper free at this time (11 months) and I have not changed a poopy diaper since he was 4 months old (which makes it all worth it, i think).

I am going to get the book back immediately so i can re-read those sections that you pointed out. We are still having lots of trouble after four plus months of ncss so the book may help. Nikki still wakes up every hour to hour and a half. I will post again when I re-read those sections.

Thanks for your support and suggestions