COEXFA - nice to meet you!

Zennifer · #1 (**permalink**) 09-13-2007, 05:54 PM

:hi

and

s to you for all this that you are going through!

My Sofi is one stubborn little 9 month old. She has had horrible sleep since the day she was born, I have read the No Cry book so many times it is falling apart. So am I. I try everything.

I'm with you there!

I have a 9 month old boy who has never slept well, doesn't nap for more than 20 minutes a day (if that).

He has grown 6 teeth since June and I really think it's affecting him! Plus, we are constantly coming back and forth from our cottage

to the city so we have no consistency. Now that it's fall, I'm really wanting to get some consistency and bedtime routine stuff going.

She fights everything I do to soothe her. She will be nearly asleep and will work herself up instead of letting go. Naps, night time, all the night wakings. I spend about 6-7 hours a day trying to get her to sleep. She naps 45 minutes sometimes if I am lucky.

How long do you let her stay up before you try putting her to sleep for nap/bedtime? At this age they shouldn't be awake for more than 2 hours before they should want to sleep again. It's quite possible she is overtired and that is why she is fighting you. I have no idea why my little guy doesn't STAY asleep, but when I put him to sleep he does it well because I don't let him stay up longer than about 1/5-2 hours at a time. If I do, I find I completely miss my window and nothing I do will get him to sleep.

She has never slept longer than 4 hours straight.

Do you BF? I've been told many times by people from La Leche League and from info on their website ( lalecheleague.org ) and Dr. Jack Newman's website that for babies who are BF it is quite common to not have a longer sleep stretch than 4 hours.... frustrating but true.

She cried from 4:30 am until we finally got up for the day at 7am the other night and so did I.

Do you think she is teething at all?

I was NOT trying the CIO way, it just kept happening no matter what I did.

Awwww... that is so frustrating when that happens! My older one did that sometimes! Dr. Sears lets people know that if you are holding your baby when they are crying, they know you are with them so it's not the same as cio for them.

This is a baby who stayed awake for 14 hours straight when she was just 3 1/2 weeks old!! She could not fall asleep!

I wonder if this was a time when there was one of those (at that age) hour to 1.5 hour windows that can happen when you have that much time to get them to sleep, and if the tired signs are missed, then they won't fall asleep. My older DS never showed tired signs at all, so I just had to pay attention to how long he was awake and put him down for naps after 1 hour or 1.5 hours at that age or he just wouldn't sleep!

I am trying to step back and stop working the steps for a 'break' like the book says but IT IS NOT WORKING EITHER!!

I agree! Just trying to "relax" and deal with my DS's constant nightwakings just drained me.

I can't wait til we close the cottage for the winter this weekend so we can start in on bedtime routines and consistency!

Help, help help. I don't know what to do or who to talk to. She won't fall asleep at the breast. She won't rock. She won't let me sing to her, stroke her hair, pat her, stay quiet, walk away, hold her, anything. She sometimes takes her pacifier, sometimes refuses it, when she takes it her little hands (evil things not attached to my precious girl when drowsy) creep up and snatch it out of her mouth causing her to cry. I just don't know what to do anymore.

I think you should check to see if she is awake too long before you try to put her down for nap/bedtime first. Again, no longer than 2 hours at this age, and for my older DS it was more like 1.5 hours was his limit for being awake before we needed to put him down for his nap. THat is quite often the reason for being really fussy and impossible to get to sleep... they can be so overtired that holding/rocking/singing is all completely overstimulating for them and makes it even worse, so you have to catch that 1.5-2 hour window.

Another possibility is teething - perhaps you could try Hyland's Teething Tablets, or a cold wet cloth to help with the pain if that is what it is - which it can be at this age.

Another possibility is trying different ways to get her to sleep - Dr. Sears has many ideas for getting a baby to sleep if the normal ways don't work:

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070300.asp

Also, just wondering, but your baby sounds like she is having some intense times trying to go to sleep and at night time. Is she generally intense, or is this just something she does to fight sleep? Is she normally pretty relaxed and easy going during the day but just intense at night? Or is she intense often - whether asleep or awake? Let me know because that may be another thing to think about.

coexfa · #2 (**permalink**) 09-13-2007, 08:33 PM

Hey and thanks for the welcome.
To give a few details on her, she is very impatient, smart, stubborn, sweet, wonderful and frustrating. she gets a double dose of the not so good characteristics from both parents! and of course the best from me.

She is very attached to me, getting better now though. she is not really intense all the time but she has always let me know what she likes and dislikes from day one- in no uncertain terms.
She always is tired about 1.5 - 2 hrs later and that is when I try to get her down, most people and the drs say 3-4 at this age but she definitely doesn't go that long without showing signs of tiredness. she bites my shoulder and 'flaps her wings' to show it. her little arm pumps up and down continuously until she falls asleep.
She cut 8 teeth from 4 mo until 6 mo. so unless the molars are starting it's not that. she does BF and it always was closer together than anyone thought it should be. she has never fed much in the middle of the nite, but the time is always different.
I have to say there have been some things that are better than before but the parts that are getting worse are just overrwhelming.
Our life has been stressful for her whole life unfortunately but more so in midsummer. I have gotten her out of my bed for most of the nite, she gets in at 4am (I had it at 6 but that too has regressed). But now, she barely tosses in my bed too.
She has had her first cold this week, funny thing, as tired and sick as she was she would not sleep but didn't put up a fight just wouldn't go down. That nite though she slept better than ever. but back to it after that. I am living with a friend right now and lucky for me, she is a pediatric PA so she checks Sofi's ears and throat every nite just in case there is any thing causing pain. Nope, pretty ears.
My friends have a 10wk old (that sleeps wherever, whenever, however all day and all nite) so they are busy with him. Helps comes when it can but mostly I am alone in my struggle so it probably is more intensified and hyperfocused on because of it but what else do I do? I have tried to relax but when your little one is screaming when you try to rock her, puling your hair when you try to co sleep, and refusing to close her eyes when you soothe her in her crib its kinda hard.
Good luck to all of you out there who feel my pain. May we all get at least one night of good sleep this year. Onward ho!

Zennifer · #3 (**permalink**) 09-21-2007, 08:20 PM

most people and the drs say 3-4 at this age but she definitely doesn't go that long without showing signs of tiredness.

There is a book that I'm not a fan of, but it does have useful information about sleep times that are normal for certain ages. It's called "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy child", written by Mark Weissbluth, MD. I'm not a fan of his cio ideas, but his naptime/bedtime tips are helpful. He says that for age 9-12 months:

"-usual schedule: wake-up 6-7 am, morning nap 9 am, early afternoon nap 1 pm (definitely before 3), bedtime 6-8 pm"

which suggests that it's normal for children this age to only be awake for 2 or 2.5 hours at a time, as he says naps are about 1.5 hours in length.

To give a few details on her, she is very impatient, smart, stubborn, sweet, wonderful and frustrating.

That does sound like a child that has some characteristics of Dr. Sears idea of a high need child. Intense emotions. They can find it harder to sleep.

she does BF and it always was closer together than anyone thought it should be.

Have you asked someone from La Leche League, or checked with Dr. Jack Newman's website or books? They tend to feel that babies that are breastfed can wake much more often. When I spoke to a lactation consultant, she even suggested that it's quite normal for the longest time a bf baby sleeps is a four hour stretch for the first part of the night, and then more frequently after that. lalecheleague.org is a great source of info, and there is even a section where you can find someone in your area to call and chat with. THey are very helpful with accurate information about breastfeeding, and how often babies really need to do it.

I have tried to relax but when your little one is screaming when you try to rock her, puling your hair when you try to co sleep, and refusing to close her eyes when you soothe her in her crib its kinda hard.

I would say to try to make sure those awake times are no longer than 2 hours or even shorter... some babies are tired earlier than the "norm" and then when overtired they will NOT go to sleep... they will fight and fight....

As well... I'd keep trying with a soothing bedtime routine, and naptime routine as well, so that you can slowly get her used to what bedtime/naptime feels like... quiet play, then bath, then infant massage, then songs, then bedtime books (like Goodnight Moon), then cuddles and sleep - that's our routine. It takes a while, but eventually they start to get it and it works.

coexfa · #4 (**permalink**) 09-22-2007, 09:08 AM

Thanks for the advise, I have so many flavors of books on sleep that i read all the time. I don't agree with DrW either.
I haven't been to LLL yet but hope to soon. And yep, Sofi is very high needs. For an impatient woman I have been truly given the test of my life with her. I have found more patience than I ever thought I could. She is so sweet and fun though that it is all worth it.